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My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

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Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#111

Post by rayiner »

anon9922 wrote: post #90
goog-anon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Black engineer here at a FANG. I do this all the time with black candidates who interview. In fact I use my round to coach them on the upcoming rounds and give them stellar feedback afterward. I know many would think this is ethically egregious, but it is only balancing the unbelievable prejudice against them by Asian interviewers who would not pass a black candidate under any circumstance.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

Honest question from a fellow Asian: what would you say about the level of racism against African Americans among Asians?

For my part, I’ve had several unpleasant “oh, now that it’s just us Asians here let me tell you what I think” moments over the years.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#112

Post by onetimeposter1 »

shard wrote: post #49
cameronbrown wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care. Sorry, I must have missed the memo that citizens can only visit dentists of the same ethnicity.

You shouldn't be surprised that people prefer to see doctors (and lawyers and plumbers etc) from their home country and speak their native language. Similarly, if you were living in a foreign country with a different national language, you'd likely prefer the same.

What you are saying is true, which is why a single national language is important. People will naturally gravitate towards communities where their language is spoken, so we unify ourselves by ensuring that English is the common national language.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#113

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

goldcd wrote: post #8

I was happily nodding along, until I got to: "Somehow, he managed to obtain copies of the IBM entrance examination questions and answers, which he surreptitiously shared with promising young black job applicants. He coached them on passing the exam and succeeding in their interviews. Many were subsequently hired." I'm sure this helped contribute to an increase in black hires, but is a stupidly short-sighted thing to…

He passed them on to promising(!) applicants. That means he was substituting his judgement of applicants' skills for those applicants' interviewers.

Assuming (somewhat fairly) that racism was a factor in IBM's hiring decisions at the time, it's reasonable to believe his judgement to be better.

Since he would never have a chance to influence more than a small fraction of IBM's many hires, any "reverse racism" he might exhibit in his judgement would still fall short of tipping the balance.

And, of course, several factors would moderate any pro-black bias: he has a clear interest to only promote competent candidates able to change people's minds. The candidates would still need to be able to convince their interviewers, etc.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#114

Post by goog-anon »

onetimeposter1 wrote: post #105
lallysingh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say all Asian interviewers were racist. But I certainly saw that subtle "not one of us" bias at Google for black candidates and employees. FAANGs are still American companies. They didn't check their historical baggage at the door.

By using racist hiring policies, OP is perpetuating the same "racist baggage" we have worked so hard to cast off.

I think poster was referring to the historical baggage of Asian immigrants. They do come with a lot of historical baggage, especially Brahmin Indians and their reverence to the caste system that allots them special privileges. They openly discriminate against other castes here in the US so not exactly a surprise that they also extend that courtesy to blacks.

edit: op edited post so this response looks a little off.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#115

Post by onetimeposter1 »

jmpman wrote: post #107

I used to work at IBM and a new black engineer joined around the time I joined the team. We both got stuck with the grunt work and bonded over late night conference room video game projector sessions, while running regression tests. I’ve gone on to a relatively successful career outside of IBM, but he was hit in a layoff, with his job sent overseas. Instead of continuing in tech, he moved home, and joined his fathers…

Americans are hurt by abuse of the H1B system. Companies will always hire inexpensive labor that they have leverage over and H1B gives them just that. It's necessary to put strict quotas on H1B because otherwise it will be abused, which is bad for both American and foreign workers.

Luckily the Trump administration is cracking down on H1B abuse.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#116

Post by onetimeposter1 »

goog-anon wrote: post #114
onetimeposter1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By using racist hiring policies, OP is perpetuating the same "racist baggage" we have worked so hard to cast off.

I think poster was referring to the historical baggage of Asian immigrants. They do come with a lot of historical baggage, especially Brahmin Indians and their reverence to the caste system that allots them special privileges. They openly discriminate against other castes here in the US so not exactly a surprise that they also extend that courtesy to blacks. edit: op edited post so this response looks a little off.

Good catch, you're right. I can sympathize with how you must feel, but more racial discrimination is not the answer. This is because it leads to an arms race of discrimination. And then society falls apart.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#117

Post by Eleopteryx »

goog-anon wrote: post #96
anon9922 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to assume then that when you interview an Asian candidate, you will hold them to a much higher bar than black candidates? Or perhaps under no circumstances would you pass them for a role that another Black candidate is applying for? I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived…

>I'm Asian, worked at FANG, have never discriminated against someone based on their ethnicity and frankly find your actions shortsided and regressive. You're fighting perceived racism with actual racism. No one think they have ever discriminated against someone based on ethnicity. Even Donald Trump sincerely believes in his heart of hearts that he is the least racist person who has ever walked this good earth. But ac…

I've witnessed unconscious prejudices in myself e.g. toward female coworkers. I remember being livid because a female coworker corrected me in the presence of others. If she had done it in private I would have had no feelings about it. But I felt like it was a particular harm to my reputation on account of her gender.

If asked, I would strongly deny being even remotely sexist. Ironically, if I were in a position to hire or promote a female candidate or employee, I might be unreasonably biased toward the notion on account of wanting to have a diverse team. But in the aforementioned scenario I was caught inside of my own projections of an invisible pecking order.

The prospect that there are people who might have a similar reaction to my asserting myself while being a black man frightened me. I ruminated over past interactions, framing them in a completely different context.

Trying to make it in this industry has created a certain amount of anxiety and resentment, and it's compounded by the fact that I don't know which parts of it are my imagination or reality. I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to argue that everyone is prejudiced toward me, but rather my own constant uncertainty of how I'm perceived is both alienating and discouraging.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#119

Post by human20190310 »

ecorithm wrote: post #106
handlegoeshere wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what racism is.

Racism isn't always obvious and can definitely be subtle. But actively discriminating against a whole group of people based on ethnicity is cut and dry racism. The grand parent said he was getting into "murky waters" but in fact he is fully submerged in the deep end of racism.

I think there's more informational value in hearing goog-anon's perspective than in condemning it.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#120

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

onetimeposter1 wrote: post #105
lallysingh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say all Asian interviewers were racist. But I certainly saw that subtle "not one of us" bias at Google for black candidates and employees. FAANGs are still American companies. They didn't check their historical baggage at the door.

By using racist hiring policies, OP is perpetuating the same "racist baggage" we have worked so hard to cast off.

When a bank teller hands me a bag of cash because I'm pointing a gun a them, it's robbery.

When a police officer forces me to hand the bag of cash back to the cashier, it isn't robbery.

Motives and circumstances matter.

> America's "historical baggage"? As if every other nation on Earth doesn't have similar historical baggage.

Other countries' transgressions don't absolve the US', in the same way that other people's crimes don't absolve all criminals. And while there are probably few people that never break any laws, there's still a difference between murderers and jaywalkers. For countries, there are obviously small countries that avoided committing atrocities just by a lack of opportunity. There are recently formed countries that enjoy what for Germans born after 1945 is called "the good luck of being born late". And even among larger countries with long and sometimes dark histories, not all injustice is equal: it's plainly possible to see the injustice of France's conduct in Algeria while still acknowledging it pales in comparison to the Shoah.

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