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My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

latimes.com

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Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#11

> Recent studies conclude this is not a “pipeline” problem — qualified candidates can be found. Really wish they'd provided a link to the stud(y|ies). There certainly exist qualified people of all stripes, but are there enough to meet a population-level representative size?

There is a huge pipeline problem. The only articles I've read claiming there isn't one have all been click bait pieces written by journos, not scientists or educators, and contain no data. Just wild ass speculation about the underlying causes of the pipeline problem. Which, yeah. The pipeline problem has lots of causes. But saying "we don't have a pipeline problem because there are reasons women don't major in CS" ma…

Part of the pipeline problem is that you're not winning over the most high achieving minority students to stem. I remember there was a Mexican American woman in one of my calc classes that was easily the best student and smoked everyone else (granted, it was at a second rate state school), but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. People coming from underrepresented backgrounds don't want to spend 8 years doing a Phd, then a ML bootcamp, all so they can make low 6 figures at a job that could be outsourced or H1Bed at any minute when they could instead go to medical, dental, or law school and have a respected and well paid career.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#13
post #8

I was happily nodding along, until I got to: "Somehow, he managed to obtain copies of the IBM entrance examination questions and answers, which he surreptitiously shared with promising young black job applicants. He coached them on passing the exam and succeeding in their interviews. Many were subsequently hired." I'm sure this helped contribute to an increase in black hires, but is a stupidly short-sighted thing to…

I'm not sure how it is any different than studying for whiteboard interviews. Especially in a time period when educational opportunities were not equal.

It’s not, except for bragging about the theft of the material and sharing part.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#14
post #8

I was happily nodding along, until I got to: "Somehow, he managed to obtain copies of the IBM entrance examination questions and answers, which he surreptitiously shared with promising young black job applicants. He coached them on passing the exam and succeeding in their interviews. Many were subsequently hired." I'm sure this helped contribute to an increase in black hires, but is a stupidly short-sighted thing to…

I'm not sure how it is any different than studying for whiteboard interviews. Especially in a time period when educational opportunities were not equal.

It's a lot different. It's easy to memorize a few answers. It's hard to memorize the entire corpus of material, in ignorance of what might be on the test. Yes, educational opportunities were unequal at the time. No, that does not make this a good way to equalize them.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge pipeline problem. The only articles I've read claiming there isn't one have all been click bait pieces written by journos, not scientists or educators, and contain no data. Just wild ass speculation about the underlying causes of the pipeline problem. Which, yeah. The pipeline problem has lots of causes. But saying "we don't have a pipeline problem because there are reasons women don't major in CS" ma…

Part of the pipeline problem is that you're not winning over the most high achieving minority students to stem. I remember there was a Mexican American woman in one of my calc classes that was easily the best student and smoked everyone else (granted, it was at a second rate state school), but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. People coming from underrepresented backgrounds don…

> but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist.

Just guessing here, but there's probably a message board and clique of web blogs about dentistry full of people discussing the underrepresentation of minorities in their field and how they can fix their "pipeline problem".

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the pipeline problem is that you're not winning over the most high achieving minority students to stem. I remember there was a Mexican American woman in one of my calc classes that was easily the best student and smoked everyone else (granted, it was at a second rate state school), but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. People coming from underrepresented backgrounds don…

> but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. Just guessing here, but there's probably a message board and clique of web blogs about dentistry full of people discussing the underrepresentation of minorities in their field and how they can fix their "pipeline problem".

Out of curiosity I just googled it, and yes, there is, and it's actually more serious than lack of diversity in adtech. If there aren't enough underrepresented minority applicants at Google, they will just have to hire an overrepresented minority to spy on you instead. But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#17
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. Just guessing here, but there's probably a message board and clique of web blogs about dentistry full of people discussing the underrepresentation of minorities in their field and how they can fix their "pipeline problem".

Out of curiosity I just googled it, and yes, there is, and it's actually more serious than lack of diversity in adtech. If there aren't enough underrepresented minority applicants at Google, they will just have to hire an overrepresented minority to spy on you instead. But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care.

> But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care.

Sorry, I must have missed the memo that citizens can only visit dentists of the same ethnicity.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity I just googled it, and yes, there is, and it's actually more serious than lack of diversity in adtech. If there aren't enough underrepresented minority applicants at Google, they will just have to hire an overrepresented minority to spy on you instead. But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care.

> But if the dental schools aren't producing enough minority dentists, those communities may not have access to quality dental care. Sorry, I must have missed the memo that citizens can only visit dentists of the same ethnicity.

I'm just going by what the NYU College of Dentistry says. I assume they've thought a lot more about access to dental care than I have.

>Dentists who are underrepresented minorities are more likely to serve communities in need and therefore address disparities in dental care.

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2019/septem...

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#19
post #8

I was happily nodding along, until I got to: "Somehow, he managed to obtain copies of the IBM entrance examination questions and answers, which he surreptitiously shared with promising young black job applicants. He coached them on passing the exam and succeeding in their interviews. Many were subsequently hired." I'm sure this helped contribute to an increase in black hires, but is a stupidly short-sighted thing to…

I'm not sure how it is any different than studying for whiteboard interviews. Especially in a time period when educational opportunities were not equal.

The article is written in an ambiguous fashion.

If it was "This is the type of interview and type of questions you're likely to come across" - then I've no real issue. As you mention, educational opportunities were not equal, so maybe counteracts the implicit bias of not being provided with general information from tutor/peers/previous-experience - "this being your first IT interview, you should know.." or "how a bunch of white guys tend to do things"

Story is being re-told through the father, son, book and now newspaper article - so who knows.

Re: My father was IBM’s first black software engineer

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a huge pipeline problem. The only articles I've read claiming there isn't one have all been click bait pieces written by journos, not scientists or educators, and contain no data. Just wild ass speculation about the underlying causes of the pipeline problem. Which, yeah. The pipeline problem has lots of causes. But saying "we don't have a pipeline problem because there are reasons women don't major in CS" ma…

Part of the pipeline problem is that you're not winning over the most high achieving minority students to stem. I remember there was a Mexican American woman in one of my calc classes that was easily the best student and smoked everyone else (granted, it was at a second rate state school), but when asked what she wanted to do, she said she was going to be a dentist. People coming from underrepresented backgrounds don…

> don't want to spend 8 years doing a Phd, then a ML bootcamp, all so they can make low 6 figures at a job that could be outsourced or H1Bed at any minute

Just wow. You are saying people with ML expertise and PhD can be replaced any minute! It just shows your own bias against certain people. I have never seen or heard anyone who brings certain deep technical expertise replaced in a minute. Hiring people is _really_ hard and hiring people with deeper technical expertise is even harder.

And whats up with 6 figure number? 6 figures go as high as 100,000-999,999USD and I am not sure if being somewhere in median of it (say $200K) will be considered low income?

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