Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in Europe • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in Europe

#161

Post by icebraining » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 9:55 AM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #62

Jyaif wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think you can drop a model into a new data center with a different architecture, different censors, different workloads, and it will magically save energy?

even if they didn't, seeing the limits of those models in different environments would certainly help the community overall, and if it saves a tenth of the energy it does for Google somewhere else it would be an enormous immediate reduction in energy consumption on a global scale, so it's hard to see what the downside would be. If one was truly concerned about 'democratizing AI', as companies like Google so often cla…

It's exactly because the majority of companies don't know how to implement those models that it wouldn't do any good. This is the "give me teh codez" of AI. Google's models are specific to their environment, and they would be more likely to generate waste (at least in time and money required to implement them) than to reduce it.

Re: Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in Europe

#162

Post by ithkuil » Sun, Sep 22, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

phlo wrote: post #143

ithkuil wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: physics noob) If a Stirling engine can be operate at 50% efficiency and a heap pump can operate at 400% efficiency, could we take a source of heat (e.g. heat side product of computation instead of burning fuel) use it to power the Stirling engine and use the movement of the Stirling engine to power a heat pump and thus turn computation into house heating at effective 200% efficiency? (under whatever assu…

Yes and no. A heat pumpt doesn't generate heat, it /pumps/ it from one location to another. It can only achieve above-100% efficiency if you don't include the source of the heat in your calculation. For a more practical example, consider a (simplified) geothermal heating system. It consists of a probe that's drilled some 10-15m into the earth, a radiator in your living space as well as a pump and piping connecting th…

No, what I'm describing is using a heat source to produce mechanical energy (step 1) and then use that mechanical energy to power a heat pump that works as you described (step 2).

Re: Google is investing $3.3B to build clean data centers in Europe

#163

Post by foota » Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

mehrdadn wrote: post #147

foota wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computing is heating, but with benefits, to a rough approximation. The components inside the computer do something with the electricity, which results in it being turned into heat. So by doing useful computing and using the created heat as a result for heating something, you've effectively made the heating free, to the degree you can use the computing for something useful.

OK, I think I see why we're seeing this differently. The only way this actually saves energy (instead of merely money ) is if, later in the future, you would've actually wasted the heat that would've be produced if your initial goal had been computation. In that case, yes, it's true that doing the computation now and using it for heat is better. My assumption was that you would be already using any heat you generate…

No, that makes sense, thanks for elaborating :)

In theory, you could take the money gained through the computing and devote some of the profits to generating sustainable energy.

Note though, I'm not really convinced that the economics work out here with:

a. how much more efficient data centers are

b. how quickly anything like this would lose value

c. the setup and connection costs