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Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

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Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#391

Post by stale2002 »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #307
stale2002 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every worker there clocks in at 9, and clocks out at exactly 5 LUL! Those are amateur numbers, buddy. I do 11-6 maybe , and work at a big 5 tech company making big 5 tech company salaries. And frankly, we aren't working a lot of the time during the day either. And yes, we have the "unlimited" vacation, which usually results in people taking about 4 weeks a year, on average. I think people underestimate how easy it…

There is no “Big 5” in tech

You obviously know what I meant.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#392

Post by vidarh »

privateSFacct wrote: post #203
stjohnswarts wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On average unions work better for the most people. People on the upper end will not stop contributing or trying, people on the lower end don't matter much anyway. It's the middle that provides most of the advancement.

At least two other data points - I have a friend who worked in a govt agency - doing cool and important work - she left because of the unfirable lifers - while the stories are funny you can’t go to work and perform well in that situation. In high school teacher X was notorious for giving no work and no s*its. He missed lots of his classes so always subs. We thought it was cool (usually easy A). He was there years but…

Meanwhile things like the 8 hour working day was a result of decades of union efforts - much of which was met with open violence.

Unions can go too far in supporting people who should not be protected,but a large part of the reason they do is that they came into existence at a time when employers literally were prepared to see workers die to protect their ability to mistreat people.

Unions tends to take softer stances e.g. in parts of Europe where their level of involvement in decision-making means the hard-line stances are no longer seen as necessary.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#393

Post by vidarh »

wdb wrote: post #171
tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a contract with the USPS IT department and let me tell you, it is absolutely awesome for their employees. They do about half the work we do in twice the amount of time, get paid more, have more holidays (2 weeks + every single federal holiday) and have pensions. Every worker there clocks in at 9, and clocks out at exactly 5, not a single minute past. If you want a meeting or them to get you something, it need…

Pension, more then two weeks holiday, and 9am-5pm workdays sounds like a normal working conditions for an employee?

I'd never take a job with that little holiday. I'll never understand US attitudes on that matter - on most of Europe only two weeks would be unthinkable.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#394

Post by onion2k »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it.

The people doing it must believe it works. That's not the same as it actually working. People do things that don't work believing that they do all the time.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#395

Post by onion2k »

mszcz wrote: post #283
OldFatCactus wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would get lazy having a 40 hour work week and 2 weeks paid vacation?

No way. Unpaid overtime sucks. Burnout sucks. What I meant was that that USPS job description sounded to me like a cushy, untouchable asshole replying to emails passive aggressively every other day from 1200-1235hrs. I'm not for exploiting people if that's what you mean. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Assuming someone's job is easy, without knowing much about it, and therefore believing they must lazy isn't a good look.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#396

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

Not to say, but historically, the only parties against unions are fascist and nazy, two far right mouvements. As such, they didn't be concerned so much with workers status and wellbeing than the corporate interest financing their parties.

The only reason a member of the working class to be against union is because they are either paid to be so or because they have been brainwashed by anti-union messaging.

As I said sometimes, far right leaning workers have traded their social rights in order to piss off black people and the jews.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#397

Post by w1nst0nsm1th »

xnyan wrote: post #191
LeoPanthera wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it's important to note here that "bad for management" doesn't necessarily mean "good for employees". It is possible that unions are bad for both It's become clear in the past few years that a lot of people care less about winning than they do about their "enemies" losing. To them, it doesn't matter if you hurt yourself, as long as you hurt the people who disagree with you as well.

"It's become clear", could you please follow up with some examples so that what you are saying become more clear?

Well, people voting for republican party are a good example... When you observe their policies, always intended to help corporate interests, you understand their voters are more interested in pissing of black people and the poors than improve their own condition.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#399

Post by jzb »

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

You'd think that... but apparently not.

Worked at a factory many years ago (early 90s) where we supplied a union shop with parts. UAW was trying to unionize our plant, and management flipped its shit and went on the warpath. Prior to that I was really not pro-union, despite my father having been a UAW member and drilling into my head the times when the union kept the company from dicking people around.

They showed their true colors loud and clear, but people still voted against the union. Despite all evidence to the contrary, they had people convinced that they were each and every one high performing employees who'd be held back by things like standard pay scales and agreements on overtime, etc.

Sadly by that time I wasn't at the shop to vote anymore, because I was fired for speaking up against random drug testing. (Technically, I was fired for a "willful work stoppage" after coming back from lunch fifteen minutes late despite company policy saying you had 3 strikes in, IIRC, 90 days for being late to or back to work. It just happened to coincide with making noise about the brand new random drug policy introduced right around the time the UAW started trying to organize the shop.)

I get that the UAW and other unions have their problems, but I wish people would work more on fixing those problems than giving up on the idea of unions. The older I get, and the more corporate bullshit I see, the more I believe we need more organized labor and not less.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#400

Post by claudeganon »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #383
MiroF wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely common from the perspective of HN commentators but not actually extremely common in reality. Most people do not have a managerial position their entire lives - period.

Actually extremely common in reality. If you're a landscaper, you don't typically go from there to being the CEO of Facebook, but after a few years you may end up in a supervisory position managing other workers. Or you save up enough money for a down payment on some equipment to start your own landscaping company. There are indeed people who stay in dead end jobs indefinitely, but such people are not the majority of…

The most common jobs in the US are largely, indeed, roles that would call “dead-end jobs”:

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/area_emp_chart/area_emp_char...

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