America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys • Hacker News Board

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#91

Post by thangalin » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #88

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely bad hurricane damage (something that has been the case since Europeans settled the region). I don't know how to say this politically but this is something that took me back when the call-to-arms came about for the Bahamas recently given the latest h…

See my post below, Bahamas is no different, most of those houses that where destroyed where built pre-codes. I have a lot of family in the Bahamas, there houses are all on stilts and cat 5 rated. All of their houses survived. Hurricanes are nothing new, we have endured them all of our lives, they are not getting worse or more frequent. My family has been in Florida and the Bahamas for 14 generations along the way it…

> they are not getting worse or more frequent

NOAA data indicates otherwise:

* https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/images/Atlantic_Storm_Count.j...

* https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/

* https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/images/AtlanticStormTotalsTab...

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#92

Post by hammock » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:25 PM UTC

kls wrote: post #88

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely bad hurricane damage (something that has been the case since Europeans settled the region). I don't know how to say this politically but this is something that took me back when the call-to-arms came about for the Bahamas recently given the latest h…

See my post below, Bahamas is no different, most of those houses that where destroyed where built pre-codes. I have a lot of family in the Bahamas, there houses are all on stilts and cat 5 rated. All of their houses survived. Hurricanes are nothing new, we have endured them all of our lives, they are not getting worse or more frequent. My family has been in Florida and the Bahamas for 14 generations along the way it…

>My original family homestead is still standing and was built in the 1700's, it has seen many storms some worse that Irma and Dorean.

That is so epic dude. Can you tell me more about it? Where is it, what kind of place is it? How much is original?

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#93

Post by maehwasu » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #8

'By the end of the century, 13 million Americans will need to move just because of rising sea levels, at a cost of $1 million each, according to Florida State University demographer Mathew Haeur, who studies climate migration.' I couldn't find any concrete evidence to validate this, it seems more of a prediction? Mr Hauer is a sociologist so this seems a bold claim https://coss.fsu.edu/sociology/mhauer 'his research…

You can, quite literally, find someone from a university in the social sciences who say anything that you want.

The practice of inserting quotes from random "experts" in news stories is one of the worst journalistic practices out there. It's fundamentally dishonest in very obvious ways, and forms the basis of many articles.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#94

Post by kls » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:27 PM UTC

thangalin wrote: post #91

kls wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my post below, Bahamas is no different, most of those houses that where destroyed where built pre-codes. I have a lot of family in the Bahamas, there houses are all on stilts and cat 5 rated. All of their houses survived. Hurricanes are nothing new, we have endured them all of our lives, they are not getting worse or more frequent. My family has been in Florida and the Bahamas for 14 generations along the way it…

> they are not getting worse or more frequent NOAA data indicates otherwise: * https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/images/Atlantic_Storm_Count.j... * https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/ * https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/images/AtlanticStormTotalsTab...

according to the charts you linked to Hurricanes and Major Hurricanes (the only ones a person really needs to worry about) look pretty steady to me.

It is well know that storm seasons peak and trough, on a roughly 10 year cycle. I remember the old timers telling me that long before meteorology could predict the weekly weather with any form of accuracy. We peaked in 2005 and hit bottom in 13 we are close to a peak again. I got hit by 4 hurricanes in 2005, it was a freak anomaly and I assume I will never see that again in my lifetime.

Take named storms out of the equation, we literally drive around in those things. The north gets worse storms when they get their noreasters. They are of little to no concern other than they have the possibility to develop.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#95

Post by enraged_camel » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #85

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #76

Presumably I'll get downvoted for this but here it goes.. I know that news sites like to link anything they can to climate change in the global human-caused sense because it might create more clicks but how is this a "climate exodus" in that sense? It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely ba…

> It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely bad hurricane damage (something that has been the case since Europeans settled the region). I don't know how to say this politically but this is something that took me back when the call-to-arms came about for the Bahamas recently given the latest h…

Dorian was the most powerful hurricane recorded in the history of the Bahamas, and the worst natural disaster in the country's history.

Last year, Hurricane Harvey caused catastrophic "500-year" floods in Texas. Just this past week, remnants of tropical depression Imelda dropped unbelievable amounts of rain along the Texas Gulf Coast - more than 40 inches in some areas.

As these types of extremes become more frequent, you need to ask yourself if this stuff is just what is on the schedule, or if things are getting worse.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#96

Post by selimthegrim » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #69

clumsysmurf wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is discussed in a book called "The Geography of Risk" "The chief beneficiaries of the land boom at the coast have been the beach towns and property owners who perversely shoulder little of the risk of building in harm’s way yet enjoy most of the wealth, the report added." https://longreads.com/2019/09/03/the-geography-of-risk

The biggest flood insurance beneficiary is the Houston TX area. "More flood insurance funds have been paid here than in any other National Flood Insurance Program-participating community."[1] "After the 1940's, the Harris County area did not suffer what would be considered a widespread, regional flood, that is, until June 2001." Since then, 2001, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2015, 2016, and right now. Houston way overbuilt in f…

Two of these are not like the others - are the ports (I count Galveston and South Louisiana as part of their nearby bigger cities) just going to be allowed to vanish?

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#97

Post by Waterluvian » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:31 PM UTC

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #76

Presumably I'll get downvoted for this but here it goes.. I know that news sites like to link anything they can to climate change in the global human-caused sense because it might create more clicks but how is this a "climate exodus" in that sense? It's more a case of people having built homes in a very flat, easily flooded place that has always been really, really shitty for living due to the dangers of extremely ba…

I visited South Carolina for a wedding and we had a house on the ocean. Every house was on stilts. I asked locals and they said that it was so the houses survived storm season. One also said that they still get obliterated every 20 years or so but you just budget that in.

20 year rebuilds turning into 1 year rebuilds is what I think first world "climate exodus" looks like.

Yes, they know the location is pretty bad. But the numbers had worked for that ocean side Vista. They won't anymore.

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#98

Post by mancerayder » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #71

harimau777 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government failed to hold corporations that emitted greenhouse gasses accountable for their externalities then I'd say that it becomes the government's responsibility.

What about the consumers who benefited from the greenhouse gas emissions?

"Consumers," "government," you both are saying are responsible and should pay.

That's us - you do realize?

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#99

Post by selimthegrim » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

hansthehorse wrote: post #30

all2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I recall, high risk events are typically separated from policies and require the home owner to carry 'normal' insurance and they can optionally have the high-risk event policy.

You can buy a separate wind damage rider on your homeowners but if you want flood coverage it's a government run game.

As memorably recalled by U. Ruckus in the Boondocks episode “Invasion of the Katrinians”

Re: America’s Great Climate Exodus Is Starting in the Florida Keys

#100

Post by harimau777 » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #71

harimau777 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the government failed to hold corporations that emitted greenhouse gasses accountable for their externalities then I'd say that it becomes the government's responsibility.

What about the consumers who benefited from the greenhouse gas emissions?

Since corporations can pass changes in cost onto consumers by raising prices, if the government held corporations accountable for the costs of their externalities, then those costs would also be shared by the consumers.