Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

m.pghcitypaper.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 448 posts

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#241

Post by turtlecloud »

kortilla wrote: post #227
dlp211 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are nice anecdotes, the data says otherwise. There will always be slackers, they exist in every job and industry.

[citation needed] Eliminating any motivation to perform well is of course going to discourage people who try harder for rewards. That’s basic economics. Claiming that the top performers will continue to innovate and lead when they are compensated the same as the bare minimum clock punchers is extraordinary and requires evidence. About the only place where unions are better (at least the salary negotiating US style on…

With UBI that should remove the lazy ones who are stuck in those type of positions.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#242

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

S_A_P wrote: post #239

Is there a good place to learn about what unionizing tech workers will do/is trying to accomplish? Also, isn’t being a contingent worker an implicit contract that you are willing to give up benefits and (in many cases theoretical) stability for a higher hourly rate? Obviously I don’t/can’t speak for everyone but my spouse has the full time job and insurance and I grind it out to pad the bottom line. If widespread uni…

I think it's a very good question.

Google employees have some of the best salaries, generous benefits, plentiful vacations, massages, psychological help, free food - you name it.

I see how a union can make things worse for googlers. I cannot see how unions can make things better.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#243

Post by ramphastidae »

S_A_P wrote: post #239

Is there a good place to learn about what unionizing tech workers will do/is trying to accomplish? Also, isn’t being a contingent worker an implicit contract that you are willing to give up benefits and (in many cases theoretical) stability for a higher hourly rate? Obviously I don’t/can’t speak for everyone but my spouse has the full time job and insurance and I grind it out to pad the bottom line. If widespread uni…

You might be interested in https://www.freelancersunion.org/

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#244

Post by wolco »

S_A_P wrote: post #239

Is there a good place to learn about what unionizing tech workers will do/is trying to accomplish? Also, isn’t being a contingent worker an implicit contract that you are willing to give up benefits and (in many cases theoretical) stability for a higher hourly rate? Obviously I don’t/can’t speak for everyone but my spouse has the full time job and insurance and I grind it out to pad the bottom line. If widespread uni…

You will see steady raises instead of being forced to switch roles to keep pace. For contractors this isn't a concern but should be attractive for someone fulltime.

Setting rates/minimums/standards would help.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#245

Post by ramphastidae »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #242
S_A_P wrote: post #239

Is there a good place to learn about what unionizing tech workers will do/is trying to accomplish? Also, isn’t being a contingent worker an implicit contract that you are willing to give up benefits and (in many cases theoretical) stability for a higher hourly rate? Obviously I don’t/can’t speak for everyone but my spouse has the full time job and insurance and I grind it out to pad the bottom line. If widespread uni…

I think it's a very good question. Google employees have some of the best salaries, generous benefits, plentiful vacations, massages, psychological help, free food - you name it. I see how a union can make things worse for googlers. I cannot see how unions can make things better.

The Google employees advocating for unionization are contractors and do not enjoy the benefits you mentioned.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#246

Post by erikpukinskis »

corebit wrote: post #59
erikpukinskis wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re talking about programming... the reason programmers (of a certain sort) are paid a lot in the Bay Area is not because they are vastly “higher” skilled than other people. The average chef in the Bay Area is WAY more skilled than all but the most skilled coders. There are two reasons why programmers (of a certain sort) make so much money: 1) It’s an area of speculation, how much revenue can such people produc…

Whoa! Talk about an overtly racist post! How is this not flagged?!

What's racist about it? I chose my language pretty carefully.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#247

Post by walshemj »

matchagaucho wrote: post #86

USW is completely the wrong union for representing Tech Workers. This will not turn out well for the Workers. The USW membership dues will start at $100+ per month and go to strike funds, Lawyers, Representatives, and Stewards who have their own self-interests in mind. This is basically just paying protection money to thugs. EDIT: For those downvoting, perhaps you'd care to kindly suggest a better union for this caus…

IT does depend on how the USW is structured internally but its probably not the best $110 is high I am paying abut $24 for Prospect /BECTU UK as that's the main union for tech.

A more realistic one might be the union that has experience representing people in the federal government organise in the public sector as well or oddly enough IATSE (film and TV non actors union)

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#248

Post by peisistratos »

darawk wrote: post #112
rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

> It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose it this much." I think it's important to note here that "bad for management" doesn't necessarily mean "good for employees". It is possible that unions are bad for both, by gumming up the negotiating process, and insulating low performing employees at the expense of high perform…

> gumming up the negotiating process

The negotiation process is the workers trying to keep more of the wealth they themselves create. "Gumming up" is when the people parasitically appropriating surplus labor time from those workers demand more.

> insulating low performing employees at the expense of high performing employees

Who will insulate us from the heirs expropiating dividend profits from high (and low) performing employees? What hubris that the heirs who do not work want those of us who do work in some Hunger Games competition against one another.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#249

Post by cameronbrown »

jsty wrote: post #204
chillydawg wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those conditions would actually be illegally poor in the UK for a full time employee. Minimum paid holiday is 22 + 8 days (8 are the public holidays) and everyone must have an employer matched contribution pension of at least 2% of gross salary. Hours are not regulated here but generally 8 per day.

> Hours are not regulated here but generally 8 per day Whilst a lot of employers will have you opt out of the working time directive as part of an employment contract, you can opt back in at any time, limiting your max hours to 48 a week on average: https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maxim...

In addition you have the right to opt out of working on Sunday - which obviously has its religious roots.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#250

Post by privateSFacct »

dlp211 wrote: post #212
privateSFacct wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least two other data points - I have a friend who worked in a govt agency - doing cool and important work - she left because of the unfirable lifers - while the stories are funny you can’t go to work and perform well in that situation. In high school teacher X was notorious for giving no work and no s*its. He missed lots of his classes so always subs. We thought it was cool (usually easy A). He was there years but…

Those are nice anecdotes, the data says otherwise. There will always be slackers, they exist in every job and industry.

I'd be interested in that data - I have colleagues with wives / husbands doing union shift work - even if you are 100% gung-ho it seems to be 100% seniority based still or has that changed?

Things like UBI, higher minimum wage, reduce exempt classification loopholes etc all seem like ways that rules could change to benefit everyone.

I would LOVE to see the data that says a seniority based union system results in better retention of high performers and their continued push to perform well.

Post reply on HN