So is "pro-union activity". Of course when an important vote is about to happen, the campaigns on either side of that vote will make their case.
Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
81–90 of 448 posts
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#82I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…
I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.
I’ve spent 30 years in the US, many of those in red states, and I’ve heard the “temporarily embarrassed millionaire” canard way more often than I’ve heard anti-union rhetoric. In fact, I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anti- (private sector) union rhetoric.
Have you considered that maybe peoples’ reactions are based on bad experiences with unions? In particular, public sector unions. Even liberal areas are pretty anti-union, and with things like the DC and NYC Subways falling apart despite massive funding, who can blame them? With police unions protecting crooked cops and teachers unions protecting bad teachers, who can blame them?
(I think it’s also fair to say that the sheer rapaciousness of American public sector unions is the result of an anti-union war that has otherwise receded from the public consciousness. They fight everything tooth and nail, even reasonable reforms, because they’re the outnumbered survivors of anti-union movements.)
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
What percentage of your life have you been being inculcated with the idea that your political opponents believe themselves to be temporarily embarrassed millionaires?
Opponents? My political opponents are actual, non-embarrassed millionaires and billionaires from families of millionaires and billionaires. My political allies are temporarily embarrassed millionaires, from the folks accepting below-market salaries to work at a potential unicorn to the folks buying literal lotto tickets at the corner store. A few of them are no longer temporarily embarrassed, having joined the right…
It sounds like you're counting your opponents as politicians and allies as the people whom you personally associate with politically.
If you were referring to only politicians, they're basically all millionaires.
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#84I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…
I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.
Count me in. Inculcated into the backwards ideas that free markets are good and monopolies are their enemy.
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.
Ah yes, the toothless cry of the moderate liberal. “I think climate change is real, I just don’t support carbon taxes/the Green New Deal/anything else.” “I’m opposed to racism, I just don’t support reparations/police reform/my daughter and her black boyfriend meeting my parents.” “Sure, Politician X is corrupt, but I just can’t support impeachment. It’s just too soon .” “I support the labor movement, but just can’t a…
The parent brought up a valid point, that organizing can be done without traditional union bureaucracy behind it - and perhaps suggesting sometimes this is a better approach.
Then you responded with a completely different set of points attacking the parent poster on completely unrelated topics that you somehow equated to what the parent said.
If we want positive change in our world we need respectful and rational discourse. Posts likes yours actively tear down discourse and makes worse the very problems you mention.
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#86USW is completely the wrong union for representing Tech Workers.
This will not turn out well for the Workers. The USW membership dues will start at $100+ per month and go to strike funds, Lawyers, Representatives, and Stewards who have their own self-interests in mind.
This is basically just paying protection money to thugs.
EDIT: For those downvoting, perhaps you'd care to kindly suggest a better union for this cause?
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.
Ah yes, the toothless cry of the moderate liberal. “I think climate change is real, I just don’t support carbon taxes/the Green New Deal/anything else.” “I’m opposed to racism, I just don’t support reparations/police reform/my daughter and her black boyfriend meeting my parents.” “Sure, Politician X is corrupt, but I just can’t support impeachment. It’s just too soon .” “I support the labor movement, but just can’t a…
> Ah yes, the toothless cry of the moderate liberal.
Why should every position need teeth? Isn't it possible that we are largely doing things correctly enough, and we should focus on the exceptions to that?
> "...I just don't support ... my parents meeting my daughter and her black boyfriend" [your caricature of a moderate liberal]
What do you accomplish, if your parents really are so racist, by tactlessly exposing to something they will simply reject? You have better options, even if your goal is for them to change. What about his parents, are they good? Maybe if they knew your daughter's boyfriend's parents were responsible, the truth would be easier to accept. I don't get why empathy is no longer a common resource for solving problems in the left coast culture.
People who are wrong about something are still people, and you won't notice when you're wrong like them, so why can't you empathize sometimes?
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.
Ah yes, the toothless cry of the moderate liberal. “I think climate change is real, I just don’t support carbon taxes/the Green New Deal/anything else.” “I’m opposed to racism, I just don’t support reparations/police reform/my daughter and her black boyfriend meeting my parents.” “Sure, Politician X is corrupt, but I just can’t support impeachment. It’s just too soon .” “I support the labor movement, but just can’t a…
Your assumptions about my personal politics are both incorrect and unwarranted.
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.
Ah yes, the toothless cry of the moderate liberal. “I think climate change is real, I just don’t support carbon taxes/the Green New Deal/anything else.” “I’m opposed to racism, I just don’t support reparations/police reform/my daughter and her black boyfriend meeting my parents.” “Sure, Politician X is corrupt, but I just can’t support impeachment. It’s just too soon .” “I support the labor movement, but just can’t a…
You present this as if there were only two positions one could hold on those topics which helps you paint anyone who has a different opinion as an indecisive buffoon.
Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unions are just corporations for labor. Not necessarily, some are democratic, like some in Sweden. The IWW is an example of an alternative to the centralized unions [1]. 1. https://www.iww.org/about/official/OBU
My point is that unions only suck if you let them suck. The devil is in the implementation details, and the effort put forth by members.
Certainly.