Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#51

Post by rapind » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #32

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

I think their angle is that it’s not in anyone’s favour to unionise.

It's hard to pinpoint where it originated but anti-union sentiment existed conversationally my entire life. The view being that union's are big inefficient bureaucracies of lazy people who get nothing done.

It parallels the view of government I grew up with.

Never really questioned where this view came from though, but my guess would be persistent long term marketing by interested parties. "Nudging" if you will.

That's what socialism, union's, and co-ops are up against. A sentiment that's been groomed over a long time, that makes you feel like a Commie or a conspirator if you question it.

It's lead me to think that capitalism has become a religion. If you question it you get labeled subconsciously by otherwise reasonable peers.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#52

Post by claudeganon » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

staticautomatic wrote: post #47

claudeganon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.

Not sure how you square those two. Could you elaborate? Any less durable form of organizing seems likely to have its work undone by the very well-organized and durable cadre of owners/management

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#53

Post by tempsy » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

Union tech is a very interesting startup idea. How do union organizers keep track of members, handle dues, plan, and communicate?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#54

Post by coupdetaco » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:33 PM UTC

claudeganon wrote: post #34

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

Or the unions are composed of reprehensible bigots who support the Vietnam war and are bad on race

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#55

Post by Operyl » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:35 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #15

Operyl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I recall correctly, generally janitorial, stuff like that now. EDIT: geez, sorry guys, I already admitted I misremembered down below. Sorry :/

According to their website, they are an India-based IT services contractor. Not janitorial.

My bad! I got my wires crossed there.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#56

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

staticautomatic wrote: post #47

claudeganon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

One can be pro-organizing but not pro-union.

One should be both, with a careful eye towards aggressive governance and transparency of your union. No different than if you have equity ownership in a startup, the only difference is that you’re selling your time collectively instead of a product.

Unions are just corporations for labor sales. If you don’t like your management, replace them with your vote.

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#57

Post by refurb » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

option wrote: post #50

rdiddly wrote: post #28

I always wonder about these ham-handed anti-union efforts. I assume they must work to some degree, or they wouldn't do it. But it seems like the sudden escalation of anti-union arguments would only end up working in favor of the union. Because it betrays how against it they are. It confirms that yes, this union will have an effect, and not in management's favor. Like "Clearly we're onto something here if they oppose…

the unions tend to have an effect in favor of union’s leadership

Yup. Often forming a union just replaces self-serving management with self-serving union leadership.

Nothing like those union leaders making $300k per year!

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#58

Post by robbyt » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:38 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #46

telaelit wrote: post #37

We should all unionize IMHO

We have -- we are all citizens. If you're a citizen of the United States, here is the first sentence of the document that instantiates that union: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establi…

Are H1B workers included in this union?

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#59

Post by corebit » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:39 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #42

dev_dull wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The painfully obvious answer is that the work is low skill. Why? Because the job market in the Bay Area is such that high skilled labor can easily and quickly find more gainful employment. It doesn’t make it better for them to earn less, and a union is one way to group high and low skill labor pool such as the whole can have a better quality of life.

If you’re talking about programming... the reason programmers (of a certain sort) are paid a lot in the Bay Area is not because they are vastly “higher” skilled than other people. The average chef in the Bay Area is WAY more skilled than all but the most skilled coders. There are two reasons why programmers (of a certain sort) make so much money: 1) It’s an area of speculation, how much revenue can such people produc…

Whoa! Talk about an overtly racist post! How is this not flagged?!

Re: Anti-union activity is heating up ahead of Google contractor's vote to unionize

#60

Post by arglebarnacle » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 4:41 PM UTC

coupdetaco wrote: post #54

claudeganon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to be framed against the baseline of pervasive anti-union ideology in the US. When people have been inculcated all their lives with the idea that labor organizing is bad, they’re all just temporarily embarrassed corporate execs, it doesn’t take too much to push them back towards this baseline. Or at least enough to quash the union.

Or the unions are composed of reprehensible bigots who support the Vietnam war and are bad on race

The unions are democratic institutions that represent the self-organization of working people. If the current leadership of a union is bad (and in many cases it is) it should be campaigned against, voted out, and replaced. Giving up on the idea of a union because you don't like who's been elected to run it is self-defeating.