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Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

economist.com

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Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#41

Post by boredishBoi »

jaimex2 wrote: post #29

While at university here in Australia I was given the opportunity to spend a few weeks in China sponsored by Huawei. I was naive back then. It was just one massive brain washing exercise where we were taken on a propaganda tour and taught how stupid the Australian government was to not contract Huawei to build the NBN.

I’m a uni student in aus right now and I’m not a fan of Chinese propaganda but I wouldn’t mind a free trip to China. Do you have any links/tips on how I could get myself on one of these trips? I’m at UNSW btw.

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#42

Post by stri8ed »

missosoup wrote: post #2

They didn't just trade free speech for cash. They traded their academic integrity. Talk to anyone who teaches at ANU/Monash/Melbourne and they'll tell you the same thing: most international Chinese students should fail by every metric there is, but there is tremendous pressure from the faculty to 'find marks' to get those students to scrape through and look the other way at their plagiarism and cheating. It's like th…

What is the motivation behind the cheating and plagiarism? This would seem to imply that students do not care about learning the underlying skill. Why would a country encourage this?

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#43

Post by missosoup »

stri8ed wrote: post #42
missosoup wrote: post #2

They didn't just trade free speech for cash. They traded their academic integrity. Talk to anyone who teaches at ANU/Monash/Melbourne and they'll tell you the same thing: most international Chinese students should fail by every metric there is, but there is tremendous pressure from the faculty to 'find marks' to get those students to scrape through and look the other way at their plagiarism and cheating. It's like th…

What is the motivation behind the cheating and plagiarism? This would seem to imply that students do not care about learning the underlying skill. Why would a country encourage this?

Cheating and plagiarism are perfectly a-ok in China[1]. Not only that, but their education system peaks towards the end of high school with the Gaokao and once they get to tertiary education, they're more or less guaranteed to pass even if they don't do a day of work[2]. Chinese students don't expect to have to work for their degree once in university.

This spills over to other topics that could be discussed for hours, like China's terrible hospital death rates and laughably incompetent engineering.

Australian tertiary education institutions are just catering to these Chinese oddities while holding all other students to a different and higher standard. Because money.

[1] https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/07/chinese-internation...

[2] https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1003440/the-problem-with-chin...

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#44

Post by HarryHirsch »

holografix wrote: post #7
krn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like there are two sets of standards now. One for Chinese students, and one for everyone else. At least in the UK, University of St Andrews, which has the highest percentage of international students in the country, offers a Foundation Year[1] to the applicants from the third-world countries, which must be taken before the 4-year undergraduate degree. It reduces the knowledge gap, improves the language skills,…

The cynic in me would think this is nothing more than an opportunity to make more money while guaranteeing that after the foundation year anyone can get into university.

The alternative would be to admit underprepared students without offering any kind of support and take their tuition money until they fail out. That's no better.

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#45

Post by LilBytes »

roenxi wrote: post #22
hdfbdtbcdg wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on are you accusing the OPs of racism because they are opposed to corruption?

No. But that policy suggestion aligns with One Nation and is probably either going to be called racist and/or nationalist.

This isn't Facebook. HackerNews isn't about to go around accusing people of being OneNation sympathises though I do understand the position you're taking here.

Being critical of the influence of fee-paying students in University can quickly become hyperbolic.

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#46

Post by tempguy9999 »

phs318u wrote: post #33
close04 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was a huge disappointment to realize that this is how the "education system" works. Is there any man made system that isn't eventually run or at least strongly by financial interest? Genuine question.

I’d actually rephrase the question as, “is there any system that can’t be gamed?” i.e. a system immune to corruption? Impervious to bad faith intentions? I suspect the answer is no. EDITED to fix a spelling mistake.

"is there any system that can’t be gamed?”

Well, I think that's a different thing. Gaming something is AIUI an exploitation of the rules.

What's happening here is plain breaking of rules, which I'd call something like corruption.

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#47

Post by elliekelly »

tjpnz wrote: post #16
apta wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any sources on this?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395573/aut-denies-cancel...

Did the University offer any explanation for why the event needed to be cancelled as opposed to just rescheduled or held in a different room/building?

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#48

Post by roenxi »

LilBytes wrote: post #45
roenxi wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. But that policy suggestion aligns with One Nation and is probably either going to be called racist and/or nationalist.

This isn't Facebook. HackerNews isn't about to go around accusing people of being OneNation sympathises though I do understand the position you're taking here. Being critical of the influence of fee-paying students in University can quickly become hyperbolic.

The original comment was talking about blocking Chinese money from coming into Australia on the basis that it was associated with mainland Chinese ideology. That is unadulturated nationalism and it will almost certainly be interpreted as racist by the worlds up-and-coming superpower and probably in Australia as well. It clearly aligns with the goals of the mid-far right.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just pointing out we have a political ideology that wants this and it is a long way out of the mainstream. "We want to isolate ourselves from China" is a radically fringe position in Australia. We are not a nationalist nation, we are a nation of immigrants with a very fluid identity. It would also be strategic suicide to antagonise the regional superpower.

We are not going to exclude China. If China wants to send students to Australia we are going to take them in and accept whatever money they have. That isn't an accusation, that is a frank assessment of what has been obvious in Australian politics for the last decade.

I feel for Hong Kong, I truly do, but China has a long reach now; much like America. You can't run from American influence anywhere in the world [0]. There is no hope of escaping China while still basically being in Asia.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Invest...

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#49

Post by dghughes »

When I went back to school I found out about a thing called CourseHero. How? A classmate lab partner submitted the report we submitted for our work. He submitted it verbatim with his name, my name, a third person in our group and even the instructor's name.

The only reason I knew of it was a fellow classmate got a new phone and for kicks looked up his name and found the report at CourseHero.

By the looks of that website I'd say cheating is rampant. Being drawn into something you're not aware of then nearly expelled is maddening.

Re: Australian universities are accused of trading free speech for cash

#50

Post by bcrosby95 »

roenxi wrote: post #10
holografix wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to say it loud and clear and reduce our dependency on Chinese money.

China is big the way oceans are big and unless there is a really ugly war they are going to be the preeminent power in the Asia-Pacific for this century. 'Reduce our dependency on Chinese money' is a nice idea, but that would be like trying to reduce our dependency on the United States. A very difficult tightrope to walk. Besides which, that sounds like a One-nation policy. That sort of sounds-sorta-racist/nationalis…

> Besides which, that sounds like a One-nation policy. That sort of sounds-sorta-racist/nationalist ideology won't fly in modern Australia.

Your first paragraph was fine. This is over the line. Bullshit like this is why people of opposing viewpoints can't discuss things - because assholes label them like this. "Oh, but i didn't call them racist!" Stop playing games. We aren't idiots.

If you can't keep discourse harming comments like this to yourself, you shouldn't bother at all, because you make it impossible for actually reasonable people to discuss different viewpoints.

Or you can just continue then wonder why politics are "so bad". Look in the mirror.

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