Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not • Hacker News Board

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#51

Post by claudiawerner » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:09 PM UTC

eaenki wrote: post #45

claudiawerner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that follow from the fact that there are way more people concerned with the state of education (because everyone must be educated) than there are people who have ideas for far fetched science research and companies? Education is viewed (rightly in my opinion) as an intrinsic good. Somebody's far fetched idea for a company isn't.

Well, it could be equally appreciated if all those humans longing for better/cheaper education realized how much better their life because they can learn literally anything for free with a tap/click because someone runs Google/YT, which to take off required some growth capital (an ironic example in this context, yes)

They don't underappreciate capital in that case, they underappreciate the value of online education for various reasons (doubts about quality being one), the weight of tradition on higher education, and the fact that many (perhaps even most) people who go into higher education want a degree to show prospective employers (this is of course itself showing the appreciation and necessity of playing the capital game in their lives).

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#52

Post by tekmate » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

boyadjian wrote: post #13

The talent, was originally a unity of mass and money of Antiquity, so people who have talent, means people who have money.

hard to work on your juggling if you're slaving away 20 hours a day

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#53

Post by solinent » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:10 PM UTC

petra wrote: post #2

How many talented people , in advanced economies, with good technical degrees , do take part in inventing important stuff ? Very few. Educating more kids and having more "ideas" won't change that. We're not lacking ideas. We're lacking the right incentives to make ideas happen.

I think we can certainly incentivize people more, but in order to invent "important stuff" we need significant resources. If everyone was given the money to invent this important stuff, it's hard to allocate the proper resources to them, or at the very least, they will get fewer resources.

Even at large R&D companies which have the investment, people are still hesitant to invest in new ideas since they simply don't have the money. It works the same way with the government, just at a larger scale.

Many people don't care about any of this though. They just want to live their lives, find something to be passionate about, and die peacefully. You'll always have to fight these people, politically.

We also have to consider the legal ramifications of such things. It is difficult to do ethical R&D.

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#54

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

Invention is overvalued as well as the idea of "creativity."

The biggest proof is the current China-USA standoff.

USA is on the paper the biggest nation on earth by manufacturing output, but what was the last time you saw made in USA household goods in supermarket without having to specifically look for them?

Why China has industrial base and USA doesn't?

Wages difference? No, not by a chance. In some places in China, the cost of trained blue collar labour begins to exceed that of US.

An hourly rate for an experienced pick and place machine operator in South China certainly exceeds $15 per hour, and may be closing on $20. This is what I can tell from my own experience.

On an another hand, it is $16 in USA. https://www.indeed.com/salaries/SMT-Operator-Salaries

Even plain assembly line workers now get close to $15, and trained ones above that. For any manufacturing automation specialist in China, wages are better than in USA...

You don't see Chinese industrialists racing to setup factories in USA. Think why now?

I was telling my own story on HN few times already. I was trying to setup an electric scooter factory in Vancouver, Canada, and then in US northwest on behalf of my employer.

I had to hire university grads to do plain assembly, as anybody else had hard time to just wire a battery, throttle, BMS board, and a motor. And that with colour coded wire harness with mechanical keys to prevent miswiring... We spent 6 months looking for an operator for our model of pick and place machine.

In China, those are the jobs I can hire a highschooler for.

America wastes its talent not any much less than, say, most countries Americans call "the third world."

A very good story about that https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/28/technology/iphones-apple-...

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#55

Post by smkellat » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

eaenki wrote: post #21

toyg wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capital is not underappreciated - it is hidden by owners. Because their power and wealth comes from control of a scarce, hidden resource. If everyone had access to capital, nobody would be “on top”, and that’s unacceptable to the owning classes.

Mhh, I simply suspect that a family would rather fund their son’s projects and their friends because of human’s nature, and since one can’t ask a stranger to fund him, and not everyone can be bff with rich dudes, this is probably a problem better solved by the gov

“...and since one can’t ask a stranger to fund him...”

That’s been a solved issue since at least the 17th century with joint stock companies. What else is an IPO but asking strangers for money so you can do business?

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#56

Post by ecorithm » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:12 PM UTC

eaenki wrote: post #9

Imo Education is overvalued, Capital is under appreciated, And, Because Capital is trapped into networks, that Capital is squandered among an infinite array of companies employing the talent and producing products that don’t make you, or the planet, better, healthier, smarter or happier. (Apple’s SJ era, Google until 2014~ and Tesla fit the useful smarter happier paradigma, and not many other) My solution is: take a…

This sounds similar enough to the SBIR/STTR program that many federal agencies already have from the NIH and Department of Agriculture too DARPA. Basically a company pitches an idea to a federal agency which if accepted will give you something like 100k (phase 1) to explore the initial idea and place in you in a pipeline that can lead to much more money if the idea seems valuable and doable (phase 2 and phase 3). This program has led to the development of all types of cool technology and has supported a bunch of small businesses. However it is not the silver bullet you are suggesting it is.

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#57

Post by sdiq » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:15 PM UTC

I think the better question would have been, how would Steve Jobs have ended up if he were born in Syria

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#58

Post by criddell » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

pjot wrote: post #37

criddell wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had been given $1 million when I was 22 to build something, the world would have a pretty awesome Honda Civic with a flamethrower on the front, a 40" subwoofer in the hatch, and a dial to change the camber angle of the wheels on the fly.

What about the wing, though?

Of course there would be a wing. I didn't think I needed specify that.

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#59

Post by inimino » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

easytiger wrote: post #46

inimino wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unbelievably childish idea Easy, tiger. Maybe you can show off your big-boy wisdom by suggesting a better idea rather than just shooting this one down.

I guess you didn't read the test of the comments then. I perfectly justified my comment, what have you contributed

Yes I did, and no you did not. You made a drive-by shoot-down of an innocent idea without suggesting a better one or giving a single valid reason why you feel the idea is bad. If you don't have something to say that will improve the situation then maybe you should not comment.

Re: Talent is everywhere, opportunity is not

#60

Post by ericmay » Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 1:16 PM UTC

ecorithm wrote: post #56

eaenki wrote: post #9

Imo Education is overvalued, Capital is under appreciated, And, Because Capital is trapped into networks, that Capital is squandered among an infinite array of companies employing the talent and producing products that don’t make you, or the planet, better, healthier, smarter or happier. (Apple’s SJ era, Google until 2014~ and Tesla fit the useful smarter happier paradigma, and not many other) My solution is: take a…

This sounds similar enough to the SBIR/STTR program that many federal agencies already have from the NIH and Department of Agriculture too DARPA. Basically a company pitches an idea to a federal agency which if accepted will give you something like 100k (phase 1) to explore the initial idea and place in you in a pipeline that can lead to much more money if the idea seems valuable and doable (phase 2 and phase 3). Thi…

Primarily not a silver bullet in this case because it takes like 6 months and it’s a pretty involved submission. A VC firm just writes you a check. I have personal experience with this. The issue comes down to speed and decision making. The government can’t ever let a single person be responsible for something like this, so there is a lot of CYA.