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Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

nytimes.com

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Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#111

Post by SamReidHughes »

ryacko wrote: post #106
jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

As a suggestion for following articles on the subject, you could explore why there is no remedy for this apparent loss of privacy. I personally think that the Bill of Rights should have been amended once tabulating machines were used for the 1890 census, without which, it would have taken the whole decade to count.

It wouldn’t take a whole decade to count. Just hire more people. A census’s cost is proportionate to the population.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#112

Post by MertsA »

mschuster91 wrote: post #14
burtonator wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a democracy, just a very sick one. The United States is like a 243-year-old engine with a desperate need of an oil change. That oil is us... ...ok. Horrible metaphor but you get it. Not calling you out just saying just don't let cynicism take hold. Remember, we pushed Bush out and he was a war criminal.

> Remember, we pushed Bush out and he was a war criminal But never tried him, Rumsfeld or the rest - the only ones who really got a kick to their butts were those implicated in Abu Ghraib. And now you elected a president who not only is a serial liar, probably a sexual assaulter ("grab them by the ..."), but also someone who is involved in multiple lawsuits and probably either unwittingly (the satellite photo) or wil…

>as long as they get their abortion bans.

I disagree that the Republican party as a whole wants an abortion ban. The Republican party had control of the House of Representatives, the Senate, the Presidency, a large chunk of the Judiciary and 5 Supreme Court seats. If they wanted an abortion ban as much as they repeatedly claim they do, they would have it.

If Republicans couldn't run on promises of banning abortions anymore that would substantially impact their voter base. Actually following through on that promise seems a bit like sawing off the branch you're sitting on.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#113

Post by stjohnswarts »

I am the odd duck libertarian who believes we need a minimum income welfare safety net and health care as a right. However, I scoff at giving the government more power in the areas of surveillance and police power. I just do not understand people backing up the government in taking away civil rights and personal freedom in the name of "making us safer". Honestly we are far safer than even as recent as the 90s, let alone the 1890s. People will always find things to clutch their pearls over, and it's all relative.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#114

Post by stjohnswarts »

drewmol wrote: post #69
jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

Fwiw, it was the PATRIOT Act, passed shortly after the events of 9/11/2001, that allows for these administrative subpoenas and gag orders and removed any effective judicial oversight. Many of those provisions in the act were set to expire and those expirations were extended by both president Bush and Obama. IIRC the AG or their subordinates have to notify the judiciary of these subpoenas but can issue a gag order alo…

The Patriot Act has done far more damage to our democracy than 9/11 did. It's actually quite sad. It can't be considered Ironic because any idiot can see it's an arrow into the heart of a healthy democracy that is leery of government overreach.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#115

Post by stjohnswarts »

simplecomplex wrote: post #105
guelo wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you're talking about, the courts have ruled that NSLs are constitutional.

The Supreme Court has been a treasonous organization since Wickard v Filburn (8 of 9 justices then of course appointed by Roosevelt) NSLs are unconstitutional. > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly de…

I agree there is nothing at all constitutional about them, just like the Patriot Act.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#116

Post by ajmurmann »

rjf72 wrote: post #93
kazagistar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think Snowden is a hero and whatnot, I think a black and white reasoning about being a traitor isn't particularly helpful. If anything, the concept of a traitor is a weak one, and shouldn't matter in discourse... it's not a harm or benefit in and of itself, and any celebration or punishment should rest on the extent of those harms and benefits themselves rather then some abstract and largely tribal concept li…

There's one very key reason that traitors, spies, 'turncoats', and others have been been so harshly punished throughout history (and present). It entails a violation of good faith and trust. That has nothing to do with 'tribalism'. Compare your reaction to the notion of a person killing a stranger to steal their watch, and another person killing their coworker to steal their watch. Exact same crime which is absurdly…

Obviously, you are right. I also think it’s a matter of what scope you are looking at. Looking at the larger system, to me Snowden reported traitors. Yes he is a traitor to the NSA, but the oaths aren’t to the NSA, but the American people. Similarly, as a police officer you should not be loyal to other police officers, but to the American people at large.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#117

Post by kaitai »

mirimir wrote: post #98
eatbitseveryday wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize people self-report their work history on their resume? I can omit something and it isn’t a liability for anyone.

Lying on a resume may get you fired. Or so I've heard.

Omitting a job is not lying on a resume -- it's very common to prune your jobs to respect a one-page limit, and the resume is supposed to present what is relevant and persuasive to the hiring manager.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#118

Post by erikpukinskis »

cwkoss wrote: post #83
jenvalentino wrote: post #15

Hi. I'm the reporter on this story. Thanks for discussing it! I thought it might be helpful for me to make a couple points. First, national security letters have been around, AND controversial, for years now. A number of tech companies have fought the gag orders. The news here is really that we are seeing for the first time which other specific companies get a lot of these — especially banks, credit agencies and so f…

Do you know if anyone has ever responded to one of these letters with "If you want to access our data we need a signed order from a judge" and how that played out?

According to the EFF:

Can I challenge an NSL in court?

Yes. Since the statute was amended in 2006, an NSL recipient can petition a federal district court to modify or set aside both requests for records and the gag orders that accompany such requests.

There’s a good summary of the EFF’s challenges to the law here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/disappointing-ruling-n...

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#119

Post by ryacko »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #111
ryacko wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a suggestion for following articles on the subject, you could explore why there is no remedy for this apparent loss of privacy. I personally think that the Bill of Rights should have been amended once tabulating machines were used for the 1890 census, without which, it would have taken the whole decade to count.

It wouldn’t take a whole decade to count. Just hire more people. A census’s cost is proportionate to the population.

Amdahl’s Law is real.

Re: Secret FBI Subpoenas Scoop Up Personal Data from Scores of Companies

#120

Post by SamReidHughes »

ryacko wrote: post #119
SamReidHughes wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn’t take a whole decade to count. Just hire more people. A census’s cost is proportionate to the population.

Amdahl’s Law is real.

It's trivially parallelizable.
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