Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Books Won't Die

theparisreview.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 93 posts

Re: Books Won't Die

#21

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

WalterBright wrote: post #16
meerita wrote: post #8

I hope if you know spanish you can read my essay about "the end of books made of paper" http://minid.net/2013/02/07/el-inevitable-fin-de-los-libros-... if you don't I think Google Translate will do a good justice. Basically, it is clear that the concept of books will be difficult to eradicate. I find it hard to believe that we lose this great cultural format; the compilation of writings with a particular objective. R…

PDF readers are pretty pathetic. For example: 1. cannot recall where you were the last time you were reading the file 2. cannot display pages side by side in full screen (you know, like a book can) 3. herky-jerky scrolling because the programmers do not understand how to write concurrent display code 4. no way to create a 'stack' of temporary bookmarks so you can scroll around while keeping your place 5. no way to se…

There are a number of PDF readers around, and as an academic who spends most of the day working with references in PDF format, I can tell you that Zathura combined with a tiling window manager and a little shell scripting (for temporary bookmarks) can do most of what you say you want.

Re: Books Won't Die

#22

Post by aaron-santos »

I interviewed at a print on demand book binding automation shop about five years ago. Naturally one of the topics was the sustainability of paper media on short and long terms. I'll be the first to admit that the interviewer had a vested interest in selling the idea that paper books aren't going away any time soon, but the argument was compelling.

As long as children are taught to read on paper books, we will have an emotional connection to the printed page.

I've taught my children to read first using board books and then moving on to paperbacks. Printed books are uniquely suited as teaching materials for children. They are robust to dropping, food spills, and drink spills (if you're quick to react). Losing one book doesn't imply the loss of the whole library.

Most of my kids' book reading takes place at home so the portability afforded by e-readers is not a concern. Children love repetition and reading the same book over and over helps them internalize the information so being able to carry around thousands of books electronically isn't a use case for them.

Maybe some parents are teaching their kids to read on tablets or e-readers. If so, I'd love to hear your experience and the pros and cons.

Re: Books Won't Die

#23

Post by icebraining »

libraryatnight wrote: post #12

I've tried every format and device and I can't read e-books. Nothing, to me, beats a real book. I don't enjoy the experience for one, it strains my eyes (yes even e-ink). But also, and this is something I wouldn't have considered back when I was younger and it seemed like books surely must die in their dead-tree form, I actively seek ways to not be interacting with electronics and books are sublime for this purpose.…

> I carry a small one in my pocket that bothers me constantly through the day

Personally, I don't get why people put up with that, and then feel forced to escape their devices. I put up with Slack on my work machine, but on my personal laptop nothing can interrupt me, and even on my phone only calls (which I rarely get) and alarms can do so, everything is on the drawer for when I get to them. I know the defaults are often terrible, but it generally only takes a few minutes once to change them.

The annoyances of paper books, on the other hand, can't be configured or scripted away :)

Re: Books Won't Die

#24

Post by hsitz »

It's amusing to note the short time frame the "books won't die" idea is working with. The original Kindle came out in 2007, just over ten years ago. That's a tiny blip in the passage of history.

I don't know what the long-term fate of books will be. What will things be like in 50 years? 100 years? 500 years? I do know that if you expected books to be gone barely ten years after the first mainstream ebook reader your perspective is severely limited. I was resistant to ebooks for a long time; I'm relatively recent adopter; I'm surprised at how much headway ebooks have made in such a short time.

Several years ago I got rid of several thousands of pounds of my books. They were like a dead anchor in my life, a huge pain in the ass to move every few years. I love having a library of ebooks that are weightless, spaceless, and can be easily copied among different devices. I have de-DRM'd most of them and can have them in whatever format I want. It's a feeling of freedom. I think long and hard before I buy a paper-book now, and rarely do.

As far as aesthetics, yes, it's true, reading a good paper book is a nice experience. I'm not sure it's better than reading a book on the Kindle app on my iPad Pro, though. Different, but both are nice. And the paper book experience has no analog to switching to a different book in your library when you're reading but not at home. Or to carrying your library with you wherever you go. There are other important things (e.g., searching) that paper books simply have no good way to do.

Re: Books Won't Die

#25

Post by [deleted] »

reaperducer wrote: post #9
keerthiko wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it was in the mid-to-late 90s as the internet was just becoming more available to lower income groups. "Nobody buys physical encyclopedias anymore, everything else is going to go that way soon too" In high school debated on the side of the demise of books (2002) and I won. Back then I convinced myself of my side for the sake of my debate performance, but I'm pretty sure today that books are going nowhere in a…

This is true. When eBooks started becoming big, my wife threw out all of her books figuring that electronic was the future. She really regrets doing that.

[deleted]

Re: Books Won't Die

#26

Post by cameronbrown »

marvindanig wrote: post #13
reaperducer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History proves that nothing is more resilient than dead trees. Plus, trees are at least renewable, compared to all the e-waste in landfills now.

> History proves that nothing is more resilient than dead trees. That claim appears suspicious to me. Is there some data to back you up on that? > …trees are at least renewable, compared to all the e-waste in landfills now. While I agree that books tied to plastic hardware is bad, but felling trees isn't less evil either… it is only more so.

> While I agree that books tied to plastic hardware is bad, but felling trees isn't less evil either… it is only more so.

No, it isn't. Paper is leagues and bounds more renewable and most data shows the rate of deforestation is going to stabilise within a few decades. Paper decomposes cleanly (and recycles) whereas a Kindle will be the same hunk of scrap for centuries if buried.

Re: Books Won't Die

#27

Post by reaperducer »

marvindanig wrote: post #13
reaperducer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History proves that nothing is more resilient than dead trees. Plus, trees are at least renewable, compared to all the e-waste in landfills now.

> History proves that nothing is more resilient than dead trees. That claim appears suspicious to me. Is there some data to back you up on that? > …trees are at least renewable, compared to all the e-waste in landfills now. While I agree that books tied to plastic hardware is bad, but felling trees isn't less evil either… it is only more so.

That claim appears suspicious to me. Is there some data to back you up on that?

Libraries with books that are hundreds of years old.

but felling trees isn't less evil either

New trees literally grow on trees.

Re: Books Won't Die

#28

Post by marvindanig »

aaron-santos wrote: post #22

I interviewed at a print on demand book binding automation shop about five years ago. Naturally one of the topics was the sustainability of paper media on short and long terms. I'll be the first to admit that the interviewer had a vested interest in selling the idea that paper books aren't going away any time soon, but the argument was compelling. As long as children are taught to read on paper books, we will have an…

This 100%! Kids are on the iPads all the time but for games mostly. And they do repeat a lot of steps to pick up the tricks and trade of the game they are on. I mean the new tech more than covers all of the requirement. IMO, it is the education machinery that is not ready for change yet. Or may be it pays more to keep things the way they are.

Re: Books Won't Die

#29

Post by meerita »

WalterBright wrote: post #16
meerita wrote: post #8

I hope if you know spanish you can read my essay about "the end of books made of paper" http://minid.net/2013/02/07/el-inevitable-fin-de-los-libros-... if you don't I think Google Translate will do a good justice. Basically, it is clear that the concept of books will be difficult to eradicate. I find it hard to believe that we lose this great cultural format; the compilation of writings with a particular objective. R…

PDF readers are pretty pathetic. For example: 1. cannot recall where you were the last time you were reading the file 2. cannot display pages side by side in full screen (you know, like a book can) 3. herky-jerky scrolling because the programmers do not understand how to write concurrent display code 4. no way to create a 'stack' of temporary bookmarks so you can scroll around while keeping your place 5. no way to se…

Probably PDF is not the best format. EPUB can be quite good. I'm an EPUB reader and I never found any impediment. Most of the examples you mention, like "cannot display pages side by side in full screen (you know, like a book can)" are not really useful for reading, but more for admiring an illustration or a diagram. The rest of the points I think are improvements to ebook experience that can be achieved but has little to do with the old book format.

Re: Books Won't Die

#30

Post by icebraining »

sieabahlpark wrote: post #4

Why buy a book when you're limited to the device you can read it on and at the whim of when the company will revoke your license to read it? Nevermind you're also subject to poor application design. Has anyone tried to read books on Windows and had a decent time? I can't find a single app that keeps track of where I am in ebooks or PDFs and it's terrible.

> Why buy a book when you're limited to the device you can read it on

You mean a single-use device made of paper, that you have to wait to be shipped if buying online? I agree, that's terrible :)

Post reply on HN