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Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

blog.chef.io

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Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#71

Post by [deleted] »

notus wrote: post #55
shakezula wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

exactly, especially when the sentence before it mentions he worked with their executive team to make the decision. This is entirely about money. > former employee that removed the ruby gem I hadn’t heard of this, do you have a link to that by chance?

Here is the developer's statement: https://github.com/sethvargo/chef-sugar Article: https://www.zdnet.com/article/developer-takes-down-ruby-libr... Note this is the same developer who left Chef in 2014 because he received death threats from their open source community.

[deleted]

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#72

Post by robertfw »

apolymath wrote: post #60

I am pro-ICE, pro-immigration, and anti-human-trafficking. Ice separates children from human traffickers and parents alike. Human traffickers bring children to the U.S. for sale by the tens of thousands every year. We should praise ICE for their commitment to protect children & their families who have traveled to America illegally. If they want to seek refuge, they should use our immigration system to seek refuge ins…

Praise, for putting people in camps with inadequate medical care and inhumane treatment? I'll pass on the praise,thanks

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#73

Post by Porthos9K »

commandlinefan wrote: post #65
frakkingcylons wrote: post #7

I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with the Third Reich, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the IBM executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of…

> the Third Reich Not to get hyperbolic, but... you don't actually think that the U.S. government is equivalent to the Third Reich, do you?

We're a hell of a lot closer than we should be. The Japanese-American internment camps during WWII were bad enough, but this? This is worse because these refugees we're mistreating are fleeing the consequences of our dealings in Latin America. If these refugees are indeed a problem, they are a problem we brought upon ourselves, and we are making it worse.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#74

Post by commandlinefan »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #21
gavanwoolery wrote: post #11

For the record (if it matters) I am very pro-immigration and pro-immigrant rights, but I don't think denying chef services to ICE will actually do anything - let me explain. Lets look at this from another perspective (couldn't hurt, right?). I am a company that sells paper. Some companies might use this paper for very bad things (printing out patents?). Do I comb through all my clients and determine what they are usi…

Paper is an interchangeable commodity with many suppliers. Specific software products often are not. Furthermore, there's a difference between "someone bought this commodity from a distributor" and "we have a contract specifically with this entity".

If every paper company got together and denied service to ICE, then ICE would be forced to limp along without paper. They wouldn't cease to operate - even if they wanted to, they couldn't; that's not up to them. They would just operate inefficiently. It would be frustrating to the DHS officers, but actively detrimental to the immigrants in their custody, slowing things down even more. Unless you actually believe that immigration law shouldn't exist or be enforced, you should be happy to work with ICE to help them process detainees as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#75

Post by mcantelon »

Porthos9K wrote: post #61
mcantelon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideologues often don't that care much about being professional or reasonable.

Sometimes you reach a point where being reasonable and professional becomes counterproductive. Sometimes you reach a point where the doublethink necessary to seem reasonable and professional leaves you despising yourself. Sometimes it isn't enough to ask, "What would John Galt do?" In times like these, sometimes the only reasonable question is, "What would Howard Roark do?" His answer, when his work was misused in a…

An ethos that can be used to justify anything, given sufficiently crafted and amplified rhetoric.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#76

Post by Porthos9K »

viklove wrote: post #63
tr33house wrote: post #19

Regarding the deleted Ruby gems: I think it's unprofessional for developers to try and bring down production services just because they disagree with a company move. It's also a bit immature. The thing to do in this case is to quit. Down your tools and quit, but don't destroy the hard work of your teammates and betray the trust of all your investors and customers.

I think it's our moral imperative to prevent our work from being used for acts that betray our values. Take a second and remember that the gas chambers used by Hitler to inflict a genocide were designed by engineers. I think we all agree that those engineers should have sabotaged their own work to prevent harm coming to the victims of the Holocaust, and it's very surprising to me that you're defending profits and inv…

I'm not surprised. There are a lot of techies who took Ayn Rand a little too seriously and think that profits are themselves a moral value, and that investors are somehow beyond reproach by virtue of their wealth.

I might paraphrase Rand to suit my purpose as the Devil quotes Scripture, but I have to say that for such an ardent atheist, Ayn Rand's worship of wealth and those who possess sounds a lot like prosperity gospel.

Then again, if you're trying to get a startup off the ground or hope to work for a rising startup, it probably isn't smart to bite the hand that might feed you.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#77

Post by Porthos9K »

mcantelon wrote: post #75
Porthos9K wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you reach a point where being reasonable and professional becomes counterproductive. Sometimes you reach a point where the doublethink necessary to seem reasonable and professional leaves you despising yourself. Sometimes it isn't enough to ask, "What would John Galt do?" In times like these, sometimes the only reasonable question is, "What would Howard Roark do?" His answer, when his work was misused in a…

An ethos that can be used to justify anything, given sufficiently crafted and amplified rhetoric.

Speaking of crafted and amplified rhetoric, let's get back to Barry Crist's justification for allowing Chef to continue to due business with ICE.

He invokes principle to seem high-minded, but his guiding principle is not patriotism but profit. He is merely hiding behind patriotism.

All I am doing is drawing upon literature (I am using the term loosely, but I suspect it is probable that more HN members have read The Fountainhead than the Iliad) to show that being able to live with yourself and the uses to which your work is put is more important than seeming "professional" or "reasonable".

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#78

Post by sdinsn »

shakezula wrote: post #62
frakkingcylons wrote: post #7

I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with the Third Reich, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the IBM executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of…

I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head with this. This is the most accurate and succinct way to show how this looks.

Except it's not. ICE is not the Third Reich, period.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#79

Post by RickJWagner »

I am pro-immigration and wish for every immigrant to be given a good shot at great opportunities.

Chef did the right thing. It's not up to individual employees to sabotage company assets because of their own political viewpoints. I hope that employee is thrown in jail.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#80

Post by sdinsn »

robertfw wrote: post #72
apolymath wrote: post #60

I am pro-ICE, pro-immigration, and anti-human-trafficking. Ice separates children from human traffickers and parents alike. Human traffickers bring children to the U.S. for sale by the tens of thousands every year. We should praise ICE for their commitment to protect children & their families who have traveled to America illegally. If they want to seek refuge, they should use our immigration system to seek refuge ins…

Praise, for putting people in camps with inadequate medical care and inhumane treatment? I'll pass on the praise,thanks

So isn't the solution to improve the medical care and treatment?

How is removing a library for a DevOps program going to do that? Isn't it just useless virtue signaling that won't actually have any effect?

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