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Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

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Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#71
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever used Uber? Did you ever use Taxis back when they existed? It's astonishing to me how much better Uber is than Taxis, there's no question that they're adding a ton of value compared to what they're replace, at least for me as a consumer. But I hardly think I'm alone in this. On the other-hand will they be able to profit from this value? That's at best tbd, and likely already a conclusive no, they've buil…

> Have you ever used Uber? Did you ever use Taxis back when they existed? Yes, and yes, but (at least where I live), the Uber/Lyft "experience" is not superior to the taxis at all.

Fair enough, and sorry if that came off as condescending. Everywhere I've lived (SF and Chicago) Taxis are completely unusable, I'd call dispatch to request one and maybe get one an hour later. The value of Uber/Lyft to me is mostly just that it's a Taxi that works.

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#72
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Uber (and Lyft) are absolutely adding value. I now regularly take ride shares when I would previously have driven or extremely reluctantly taken cabs. I also talk to my rideshare drivers and the platforms provide some much needed cashflow (and perhaps day-filling) for people who seem genuinely happy to avail themselves of the income opportunity provided. I see no reason to think that those two companies could…

I heard some economist call Uber "the greatest transfer of wealth in a very long time". What Uber is doing is taking investors money and subsidizing your Uber ride to a restaurant. They are providing value and I'm a casual user myself. However the consumer price right now is arguably unsustainable against the stated quote above. To survive both of them are going to have to raise prices

This is not true. Uber drivers make tons of money. I know because I was one. The press put a microscope on the subset of drivers who are stupid and can’t make money because they run their businesses poorly. The press is happy to let them tell their son stories but what they don’t mention is that those drivers refuse to drive anywhere outside their immediate area, they drive huge shitty cars that cost literally ten times more per mile to operate than a corolla or Prius, and various other things. There’s this myth floating around that Uber is a trap because the costs of running and maintaining a vehicle is difficult to quantify and all Uber drivers are uneducated people being taken advantage of. This is totally, completely untrue and seeing this myth/meme spread like cancer across the entire internet has opened my eyes to how something that is totally untrue can become widely and vehemently believed. It’s simply not true. I’ve given many thousands of rides. I know. I have a college education and the calculations solidly land within the region of very healthy profit no matter how pessimistic the maintenance projections are and no matter how wide the error margin is made. It’s. A. Fucking. Myth. I genuinely wonder if people will someday understand.

Anyway, drivers make more than enough. After glancing at Uber’s books, it looks like they spent literally a billion dollars on advertising. They also do a a lot of research. Uber could easily run its ride sharing service with room for profit if it wanted to cut back in other areas.

Ride sharing is totally economically viable as a business and it is better than traditional dispatch in almost every way. Companies like Uber aren’t going anywhere. To say that Uber is worthless is flat out wrong. Overvalued or levered or invested-in, yes maybe. But ride sharing is solid. The only thing that could change it is self driving cars.

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#73
post #64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, they add no real value over the standard taxi companies. Literally the only advantage to them is that they're cheaper (which is an artificial and unsustainable difference). Everything else they do is also done equally well by the cab companies. That may be why there aren't an increasing number of Uber and Lyft drivers here, but the taxi companies are expanding.

In your area, do taxi companies operate a service "Lift Line" or the uber equivalent, in which you share a taxis with strangers who are going in a similar direction? I have never seen a non-app taxi service do this, and it's a real genuine technology enabled value add. Is it 50 billion bucks worth? Probably not. But it isn't 0 either.

I grew up with something like this. We called them buses, they were pretty cool :)

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#74
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard some economist call Uber "the greatest transfer of wealth in a very long time". What Uber is doing is taking investors money and subsidizing your Uber ride to a restaurant. They are providing value and I'm a casual user myself. However the consumer price right now is arguably unsustainable against the stated quote above. To survive both of them are going to have to raise prices

This is not true. Uber drivers make tons of money. I know because I was one. The press put a microscope on the subset of drivers who are stupid and can’t make money because they run their businesses poorly. The press is happy to let them tell their son stories but what they don’t mention is that those drivers refuse to drive anywhere outside their immediate area, they drive huge shitty cars that cost literally ten ti…

I’m gonna trust the multitudes if studies than someone telling the rest of his peers to be better.

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#76
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you ever used Uber? Did you ever use Taxis back when they existed? Yes, and yes, but (at least where I live), the Uber/Lyft "experience" is not superior to the taxis at all.

Fair enough, and sorry if that came off as condescending. Everywhere I've lived (SF and Chicago) Taxis are completely unusable, I'd call dispatch to request one and maybe get one an hour later. The value of Uber/Lyft to me is mostly just that it's a Taxi that works.

Yes, I know from experience that there are parts of the US where taxis are simply awful. But that's not true everywhere.

Where I live, the taxi companies have their own apps that you can use if you prefer (complete with being able to see where the cab is in realtime), and when you call, you'll usually get a cab within 15 minutes.

Aside from price, there literally isn't anything that Uber or Lyft does that the cab companies don't do at least equally well.

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#77
post #64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my area, they add no real value over the standard taxi companies. Literally the only advantage to them is that they're cheaper (which is an artificial and unsustainable difference). Everything else they do is also done equally well by the cab companies. That may be why there aren't an increasing number of Uber and Lyft drivers here, but the taxi companies are expanding.

In your area, do taxi companies operate a service "Lift Line" or the uber equivalent, in which you share a taxis with strangers who are going in a similar direction? I have never seen a non-app taxi service do this, and it's a real genuine technology enabled value add. Is it 50 billion bucks worth? Probably not. But it isn't 0 either.

I have no idea, since that's not a feature that I'd notice or look for.

> I have never seen a non-app taxi service do this

What do you mean by a non-app taxi service? All of the taxi companies here have apps that work pretty much the same as Uber and Lyft's.

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#78
post #3

Neither of these companies is actually adding any value at all as far as I can tell. Uber is undercutting taxis/transit with investor-subsidized rides and still has no idea how it's going to turn a profit unless it becomes the only ride in town. WeWork is pure middleman with some good branding. It amazes me that people believe these valuations. However, I can't agree with the cat comment; I'm sure Uber engineering ar…

It's always been my personal opinion that they should sell their software as as service to taxi companies through integration agreements. Besides the nicely subsidized prices, the act of easily being able to hail a ride is a game changer.I really don't give a shit what car I'm getting into, as long as I'm not calling some sketchy number, talking to someone I can't understand, and having it actually show up.

In some markets it is absolutely possible to summon a regular taxi via uber

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#79
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Uber (and Lyft) are absolutely adding value. I now regularly take ride shares when I would previously have driven or extremely reluctantly taken cabs. I also talk to my rideshare drivers and the platforms provide some much needed cashflow (and perhaps day-filling) for people who seem genuinely happy to avail themselves of the income opportunity provided. I see no reason to think that those two companies could…

I heard some economist call Uber "the greatest transfer of wealth in a very long time". What Uber is doing is taking investors money and subsidizing your Uber ride to a restaurant. They are providing value and I'm a casual user myself. However the consumer price right now is arguably unsustainable against the stated quote above. To survive both of them are going to have to raise prices

I'm not convinced they'll need to raise prices in their core business. Looking at the Boston rates ( http://www.alvia.com/uber-city/uber-boston-2/ ), those seem very much sustainably profitable for drivers @70% share and Uber could surely run the platform for their cut of those figures.

To know whether they could fall back to "just" competing for riders and only operate their core business is something that is not determinable from their released financials. How much engineering is true R&D (self-driving and the like) vs what would be required to run their core ride hailing platform? How much of their marketing spend is in established cities ("Coca Cola" type ad spend) and how much is to launch new cities or incentives to balance the development of the 2-sided market in new cities ("priming the pump" type of spend)?

I think Uber is a constellation of [small] profit-making businesses (most cities that have reached scale) and [large] loss-making businesses (select geographies and R&D efforts).

Re: Oracle’s Larry Ellison Calls Uber and WeWork ‘Almost Worthless’

#80
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. Uber drivers make tons of money. I know because I was one. The press put a microscope on the subset of drivers who are stupid and can’t make money because they run their businesses poorly. The press is happy to let them tell their son stories but what they don’t mention is that those drivers refuse to drive anywhere outside their immediate area, they drive huge shitty cars that cost literally ten ti…

I’m gonna trust the multitudes if studies than someone telling the rest of his peers to be better.

You should trust neither. You should think for yourself. Nobody seems to be able to do it anymore.

Look, you don’t need a paper or a PhD to understand this:

When I was driving, I got paid roughly 60c per mile and then got more for time, a one time fee and tips. But baseline 60c per mile. It costs 20c to 25c per mile to drive a Toyota Corolla. Yes, that includes all expenses. It’s the cost of insurance and gas and the cost of buying a new car when the old one is at end of life. Nobody is losing money doing this. It isn’t rocket science.

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