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Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

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Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#11

Post by ct0 »

snsr wrote: post #4
jwr wrote: post #3

European here, trying to actually buy the thing. You can't. The first reservations will be fulfilled in the middle of 2020, but those will only be the mid-sized battery versions. If you want the version with a larger battery, there is no firm ship date, but it is expected in 2021. What I find somewhat amusing is that for the past months we've been bombarded by a huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't…

I love it, but I don’t think these are even coming to the North American market.

That's sad to hear, Id actually put deposit on one right now.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#12

Post by mbrumlow »

zaroth wrote: post #9
vincent-toups wrote: post #5

For the masses? My family is doing fairly well for people in my generation and I've never ever briefly considered buying a car for more than 10k.

That’s a nice anecdote. The average new car selling price is over $30k (in the US).

I think the point is a used 10k car will almost always be more cost effective.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#13

Post by lostmsu »

zaroth wrote: post #9
vincent-toups wrote: post #5

For the masses? My family is doing fairly well for people in my generation and I've never ever briefly considered buying a car for more than 10k.

That’s a nice anecdote. The average new car selling price is over $30k (in the US).

And what is the median? Is it for new cars only?

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#14

Post by zaroth »

mbrumlow wrote: post #12
zaroth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a nice anecdote. The average new car selling price is over $30k (in the US).

I think the point is a used 10k car will almost always be more cost effective.

Of course it will be, but isn’t that totally irrelevant? You can’t release a new type of used car!

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#15

Post by bryanlarsen »

everdrive wrote: post #8

I'm really excited for more viable electric vehicles. But, the claim that this is the first car for the masses when it's simply 2-3k (~33k to ~35k in USD) cheaper than a Tesla model 3 is discouraging. That said, I do understand that the total cost of ownership does catch up if you keep the car long enough. I would just love to see something in the 20s, or even lower. (Further, I'm very sympathetic to the argument tha…

I presume that the "under €30,000" price includes the 19% VAT, since IIRC advertised prices are required to include the VAT. The Model 3 SR+ is €44,500 in Germany. Subtract the EV credit and it seems to me that the id.3 will only slightly more than half the price of the Model 3.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#16

Post by pwagland »

Xixi wrote: post #2

An article comparing the cost of ownership of Volkswagen ID.3 vs. Volkswagen Golf: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/09/19/volkswagen-id-3-vs-volk... Cost of gas and electricity are based, if I understand correctly, on German prices.

Note that at least part of the lower TCO is due to the fact that they expect the id.3 to retain 43% of value, and the normal golf to retain 33% of value. Setting these to equal eliminates any advantage, either way, the 5 year cost difference is largely a wash out.

That different cars retain value differently isn't intrinsically a problem, however assuming a high resale value for an unknown car feels like stacking the deck. To be fair, the author does give a justification for this difference, it's up to you if you agree with it.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#17

Post by pwagland »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #6
vincent-toups wrote: post #5

For the masses? My family is doing fairly well for people in my generation and I've never ever briefly considered buying a car for more than 10k.

And in a few years time, used ID.3's will be available for under 10K.

Probably more than a "few" I think that you will be looking at 5-7 for the cars to fall to under a third of new value. Although that depends on your definition of "a few"* I guess.

* https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/05/how-much-is-a-few...

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#18

Post by jmisavage »

snsr wrote: post #4
jwr wrote: post #3

European here, trying to actually buy the thing. You can't. The first reservations will be fulfilled in the middle of 2020, but those will only be the mid-sized battery versions. If you want the version with a larger battery, there is no firm ship date, but it is expected in 2021. What I find somewhat amusing is that for the past months we've been bombarded by a huge marketing campaign advertising a car that doesn't…

I love it, but I don’t think these are even coming to the North American market.

The US is getting the ID.4 which is a compact crossover about the size of the Tiguan. It should look like their Crozz concept and should be revealed in February.

The President of VW USA gave an interview recently stating the reason why we aren't getting the 3. One segment sells 60,000 cars the other sells 5 million. I think the ID.3 could sell great here and capture a lot more consumers than the typical market segment. Oh well.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#19

Post by Xixi »

everdrive wrote: post #8

I'm really excited for more viable electric vehicles. But, the claim that this is the first car for the masses when it's simply 2-3k (~33k to ~35k in USD) cheaper than a Tesla model 3 is discouraging. That said, I do understand that the total cost of ownership does catch up if you keep the car long enough. I would just love to see something in the 20s, or even lower. (Further, I'm very sympathetic to the argument tha…

Be careful when comparing EU prices to US prices: EU prices always include sales tax (varies by country, but 20% in France and 19% in Germany), while US prices never include them. Assuming 10% tariffs and 20% sales taxes, that bumps the $35,000 Tesla to $46,200, or about 42,000 EUR.

Indeed the cheapest Model 3 that I could find in France costs 42,600 EUR. If the Volkswagen ID.3 comes in somewhere between 26,000 EUR and 30,000 EUR, it will indeed be quite a bit cheaper.

Re: Volkswagen unveils the ID.3, its first affordable long-range electric car

#20

Post by adventured »

lostmsu wrote: post #13
zaroth wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a nice anecdote. The average new car selling price is over $30k (in the US).

And what is the median? Is it for new cars only?

The median figure doesn't exist. I've looked for it for ten years, it never gets reported anywhere.

The $34,000 figure (2019) is the average for all new consumer passenger vehicles, including SUVs, trucks (eg F-150), luxury, etc.

A typical mass market vehicle will more often be in the $22,000 to $26,000 range. From a Honda Civic around $19k, to high volume trucks around $26k-$32k (all base model prices). The Ford Explorer is one of the only vehicles on the top 20 best selling list where the base model well exceeds $30,000; it starts at $36k, versus the F-150 that starts at $28k.

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