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Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

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Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#51

Post by geomark »

aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

DEET is an ingredient in a cocktail that has been popular with the brainless backpackers that crowd some of the islands in Thailand. They mix it with cough syrup, kratom and coke. If you get too much of it then you apparently you die [1].

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-sisters-died-...

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#52

Post by narrator »

Reminds me of all the people mysteriously dying in the Dominican Republic[1]. The best I could figure out from reading about it was that illegal pesticides were being used in hotels to eradicate bed bugs and they ended up getting on bottles of stuff in the minibar and in the food and randomly killing or making people extremely sick all over the country and the resort chains covered it up.

[1]https://nypost.com/2019/06/28/fbi-to-release-toxicology-resu...

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#53

Post by klyrs »

dboreham wrote: post #27
aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

I had an experience when I was a hardware engineer working in a lab that had been converted from previously being a machine room (for mainframes: raised floors, closed ventilation system). I was cleaning a prototype board with trichlorotrifluoroethane (or something similar -- whatever the solvent du jour was back then). The board had the typical green FR4 or Brobimer solder mask film. While engaged in this task I saw…

So that's why circuits are full of magic smoke! Now I'm gonna feel bad about destroying dragon habitats in addition to the embarrassment over frying components D:

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#54

Post by cwkoss »

hinkley wrote: post #49
minikites wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dose makes the poison, caffeine is a pesticide.

Caffeine and nicotine are pesticides that humans have metabolic pathways to deal with. Dogs, for instance, can't handle theobromine.

tobacco 'tea' is a very effective pesticide, and is pretty easily removed by water. Great in dry areas, less so in rainy ones.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#55

Post by seamyb88 »

aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

This sounds like a politician's cannabis story.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#56

Post by zkms »

narrator wrote: post #52

Reminds me of all the people mysteriously dying in the Dominican Republic[1]. The best I could figure out from reading about it was that illegal pesticides were being used in hotels to eradicate bed bugs and they ended up getting on bottles of stuff in the minibar and in the food and randomly killing or making people extremely sick all over the country and the resort chains covered it up. [1] https://nypost.com/2019/…

also reminiscent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorpyrifos#Tourist_deaths

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#57

Post by harry8 »

WalterBright wrote: post #48
skim_milk wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

I drank lots of Coca-cola for decades, thinking it's only sugar, what could go wrong?

Please, what is your additional concern here?

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#58

Post by harry8 »

gvb wrote: post #23
codezero wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I think we owe Cuba and Russia an apology for the hysteria involved. However, if you're looking for a reason you can always find one. From the article, it sounds like the spraying of pesticides was "more than usual" which might mean it was done intentionally to appear as an accident, since the spraying is a good cover. I expect this would be easy enough to check on if they only sprayed with more frequen…

> At this point I think we owe Cuba and Russia an apology for the hysteria involved. We are at the point where we need to confirm the hypothesis. If the hypothesis is confirmed we owe Cuba and Russia an apology.

I feel reluctant to apologise to Putin's russia for anything much, it grates.

We are at the point where there is a very much more plausible theory than the one that was used to throw accusations around suggesting that a little more circumspection was indeed, required. Somebody should be accountable for that lack of circumspection. Was it incompetence? Inexperience? Stupidity? Something more nefarious? (eg pointing and shouting enemy action for any and all the reasons people do this). Worth finding out and acting on. We'd probably prefer people be competant dealing with these sorts of accusations as a risk mitigation strategy alone.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#59

Post by King-Aaron »

skim_milk wrote: post #17
aug_aug wrote: post #9

Possibly related tidbit - I used to roll my own cigarettes when working in the field as a geologist, left a pack of papers under the seat of my truck which had no carpeting, spilled 100% DEET on the floor, DEET absorbed into pack of papers. Months later found those same papers (what luck!) and rolled a cigarette without thinking about it, minutes later I was asking my now wife if she "could hear the helicopter sounds…

When my father was a child, he would bike behind the trucks that sprayed DDT all over the neighborhood because the DDT mist kept him cool. I hope you'll be fine, because people have done much worse!

My grandmother talked about playing in piles of fresh asbestos when she was a child, because it was soft and fun to jump in.

Re: Havana syndrome: Exposure to neurotoxin may have been cause, study suggests

#60

Post by sohkamyung »

empath75 wrote: post #38

This seems completely plausible to me and I hope it puts the absurd "sonic weapon" theory to bed. Combination of stress, genuine brain damage from excessive pesticide fumigation, and a little bit of mass hysteria.

For reference, the "sonic weapon" may have been very loud crickets [1]

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/04/science/sonic-attack-cuba...

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