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Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

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Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#41

Post by sv_h1b »

sieabahlpark wrote: post #28
marcinzm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This perception is just based on my own company, in which I (an American) seem to be in a tiny minority compared to Indian H1-Bs. The question is, which of these two seems better to you? * Someone comes to the US, works 10 years on an H1-B, and then goes back to India afterwards. * Someones comes to the US, works 10 years on an H1-B, get's a green card and stays in the US.

Very politically charged statement. It doesn't matter what the end result of what they do. It's about who gets the cards in the first place. If India can undercut it'll just be more indians instead of having diverse backgrounds from around the world. As diverse as India could be there are other reasons to pull people from other countries fairly. This seems exclusively to increase Indian immigration rates and not actu…

India has ~18% of world population, and still are way less proportionately as immigrant population.

Genetically, Indians are the most diverse ( next to entire African continent ) than any where else. Religion wise (ALL major ones and many, many minor too), linguistically, culturally too.

By any objective measure group of Indians immigrant will be way more diverse as an immigrant population, unless you define diversity incomplete until a favored group of people is not highly included.

In a highly capitalist world, there's no free lunch; surely most of the immigrant must be bringing great value?

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#42

Post by camgunz »

Konnstann wrote: post #26
camgunz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a super weird way to think about it. Scenario 1: 10 Indians, 10 Chinese, 10 French, 10 Mexicans Scenario 2: 100 Indians, 100 Chinese, 10 French, 10 Mexicans Both seem pretty diverse to me.

What do you define as diverse? You wouldn't call a diet that consisted of 90% rice and beans, and 10% whatever else diverse. As opposed to a diet that consisted of 25% rice, 25% beans, 25% leafy greens, 25% meat.

I define it the same way the dictionary does: the condition of having or being composed of differing elements.

All I'm saying is there's two ways to look at it: either there's a lot of different options, or there are a lot of different options and they're not evenly distributed. To me, I don't know why "evenly distributed" matters and it feels like sophistry. Especially when the people making the argument are generally anti-diversity (to be ridiculously generous) in the first place.

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#43

Post by throwaway123x2 »

sv_h1b wrote: post #37
sieabahlpark wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to go off topic and try to stir up a flame war. Go to Reddit for that.

Ok to the point: 5-6 companies have made mockery of the H1B system. Let's not fix issue for suffering people who came legally as the cream of the system, are highest paid as an immigrant group, pay taxes, understand democracy because of 'those' rotten apples?

Let's also not make it easier for those companies to abuse the system even more. Why blame the US for Indians' problems when Indian companies are incentivizing us to get rid of rules they're abusing? Reign in your companies instead of telling us to fix our immigration.

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#44

Post by sieabahlpark »

sv_h1b wrote: post #36
sieabahlpark wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fair the way it is because it doesn't matter what country the people are from in the first place. I don't know how a monoculture is more diverse in this case. It's backwards to think this is better for the people who are trying to get in from places like Europe or Canada, or even parts of Africa. They're now at the back of the line behind India and China. Nothing about this bill promotes fair diversity, or even…

Ok so what you are saying is that in a 3 country world: US, Lithuania, and Rest, you insist and define 50 Lithuanians and 50 rest is fair, and call out any changes as racist. By your definition, both a toddler and Arnold Schwarzenegger should both get same 2 slices of bread, because it is 'equal' and 'fair'. Anything else would be ageist?

Strawman argument but I'll try to explain. If we had only 3 countries then 50% would be from Lithuania and 50% from Rest. That is equal and fair because it doesn't discriminate against anything about those two countries. Mass emigration (to anywhere) is not something we should promote as a good thing. If we take all of the top people in the country that leaves the country poorer and worse off than if we did nothing at all.

The point is just because a place like India has a huge population shouldn't prevent or make it more difficult for people to immigrate from Australia, Europe, Africa, Japan, South Korea, or any less populated countries. The same goes with China. What gives China and India other than population alone the upper hand? Are they somehow more valuable than someone from Japan? Are the more valuable than people throughout Africa?

If you want unbiased immigration you treat everything equal. From within those pools you can argue who is more worth the green card via a merit system that can be scrutinized against those peers within the same country. By your standard India and China would dominate the immigrant population and leave less well off countries with an even worse chance for economic prosperity.

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#45

Post by sieabahlpark »

sv_h1b wrote: post #37
sieabahlpark wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to go off topic and try to stir up a flame war. Go to Reddit for that.

Ok to the point: 5-6 companies have made mockery of the H1B system. Let's not fix issue for suffering people who came legally as the cream of the system, are highest paid as an immigrant group, pay taxes, understand democracy because of 'those' rotten apples?

We make laws based on the lowest denominator. You literally cannot trust people to not take advantages of the systems in place when it's a choice between living in the most free country on Earth and their home country.

If you argue American isn't free or better then why are they trying to immigrate in the first place? Everyone I've ever talked to who immigrated here said America is better.

Don't believe everything you hear on the news buddy, they're selling the ad space just as much as Google and Facebook are.

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#46

Post by sieabahlpark »

sv_h1b wrote: post #38
sieabahlpark wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want an anecdote I've met multiple indians who have masters in the US who can't conceive of solutions themselves. They can't figure out "if" statements or solve logic problems that are trivial that I'd expect a freshman in college to solve. Don't be fooled by that the people around you are the majority who get the green cards or visas. It's actually quite a weak argument all together. Same as this one.

And so the system will filter and reject them. Unless you believe everything is Office Space?

On paper they look great, they passed interviews because they mastered how to answer questions in interviews. It's not as black and white as you seem to believe.

Re: Vote Today on Senate H-1B Bill

#47

Post by winkeyless »

This Bill could get unanimous consent this week again. S386 will boost fraud Indian IT outsourcing companies and give green cards to Indian workers. Green card applicants from other countries will be blocked for 10 years including British, Chinese, Iranian, Korean, Russian and etc. American workers will suffer too from lower wages and lack of workspace diversity. See #S386 on Twitter. Such a consequential bill should not be passed without public hearing.
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