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Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

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Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#251
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging different customers a different price for the same product is illegal under US law, and California laws don’t change that. EDIT: Several comments below point out the innumerable businesses operating in such a way as to make mine an impossible claim. Enumerating the established methods to avoid meeting the legal parameters of price discrimination is not the same as price discrimination being legal. My bar for…

How do car dealerships do it then?

Because when you buy a car you aren't usually buying "a [year] [make] [model] [with these features]". You're buying "that specific car with that unique identifier"

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#252
post #172
post #52

I see a lot of comments deriding this law, can someone explain to me why these are bad things? Quoting from this article - https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/28/landmark-california-privac... - Businesses must disclose what information they collect, what business purpose they do so for and any third parties they share that data with. - Businesses would be required to comply with official consumer requests to delete that d…

> - Consumers can opt out of their data being sold, and businesses can’t retaliate by changing the price or level of service. This is something I object to. It's just fundamentally stupid and doesn't make sense. The entire premise of free exchange is that I give you my services in exchange for something of value of yours. Making it illegal to withhold services if you don't give up your data is crazy. The only reason…

except, the full sentence in the bill reads:

> including by charging the consumer who opts out a different price or providing the consumer a different quality of goods or services, except if the difference is reasonably related to value provided by the consumer’s dat

Doesnt that second part cancel the first part? Businesses can also pay money for data ... so facebook can switch to subsciption only, but pay its users with virtual coins for viewing ads

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#253

How is this not a violation to the first amendment? Does the first amendment not extend as follows: (?) As a citizen don't I have the right to create a business and privately take notes on whatever I'd like to about my customers? If i run a dry cleaners and take notes about my customers, should I be obligated to disclose these notes or even the existence of these notes to my customers? I don't see why extending the d…

The bill has an explicit carve-out for free speech. So in some sense the bill is going "la la la I don't violate the first amendment," but ultimately it depends on what that clause means.

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#254
post #200
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first wrote that comment, it was at -2 after three minutes. Which is interesting because usually HN users claim they care about privacy.

Oh hell no, HN users are largely startup types who are all-in on adtech/tracking tech and metrics for building their businesses. There is an incessant amount of whining about GDPR for example, and how "confusing" the regulations supposedly are. What it comes down to is many HN denizens are doing things that are explicitly prohibited by these data collection laws and want to continue doing the things that have been ou…

Yup agreed. I wanted to see someone spell out why they opposed this law, because it would make it obvious that they have no problems with the horribly unethical things some of these tech companies are doing.

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#255
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Consumers can opt out of their data being sold, and businesses can’t retaliate by changing the price or level of service. This is something I object to. It's just fundamentally stupid and doesn't make sense. The entire premise of free exchange is that I give you my services in exchange for something of value of yours. Making it illegal to withhold services if you don't give up your data is crazy. The only reason…

Charging different customers a different price for the same product is illegal under US law, and California laws don’t change that. EDIT: Several comments below point out the innumerable businesses operating in such a way as to make mine an impossible claim. Enumerating the established methods to avoid meeting the legal parameters of price discrimination is not the same as price discrimination being legal. My bar for…

Charging different customers a different price for the same product is illegal under US law

Demonstrably untrue.

It is illegal to charge a different price based on a protected class like race or gender. But travel sites, for example, are notorious for charging different people different prices based on their GeoIP, whether they're on mobile or desktop, or Windows vs Macintosh.

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#256
post #172
post #52

I see a lot of comments deriding this law, can someone explain to me why these are bad things? Quoting from this article - https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/28/landmark-california-privac... - Businesses must disclose what information they collect, what business purpose they do so for and any third parties they share that data with. - Businesses would be required to comply with official consumer requests to delete that d…

> - Consumers can opt out of their data being sold, and businesses can’t retaliate by changing the price or level of service. This is something I object to. It's just fundamentally stupid and doesn't make sense. The entire premise of free exchange is that I give you my services in exchange for something of value of yours. Making it illegal to withhold services if you don't give up your data is crazy. The only reason…

> The entire premise of free exchange is that I give you my services in exchange for something of value of yours.

"Something" doesn't mean "anything". You can't offer your services in exchange for e.g. my body parts. Why are we willing to ban that but not our data?

> The only reason those services are being provided at all is to get that data. That's effectively a requirement that people provide services for free.

Well, no — they could charge money for them. But even this is a false dilemma; surely we can come up with at least one business model other than "charge directly for our service" and "surveil our users".

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#257
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Consumers can opt out of their data being sold, and businesses can’t retaliate by changing the price or level of service. This is something I object to. It's just fundamentally stupid and doesn't make sense. The entire premise of free exchange is that I give you my services in exchange for something of value of yours. Making it illegal to withhold services if you don't give up your data is crazy. The only reason…

except, the full sentence in the bill reads: > including by charging the consumer who opts out a different price or providing the consumer a different quality of goods or services, except if the difference is reasonably related to value provided by the consumer’s dat Doesnt that second part cancel the first part? Businesses can also pay money for data ... so facebook can switch to subsciption only, but pay its users…

> except if the difference is reasonably related to value provided by the consumer’s data

I think it means that if you opt out of data collection, then things like personalized recommendations will no longer work, which makes the services worse. That is a part of the service directly related to the data.

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#258
> Since the law passed, tech giants have pulled out their last card: pushing for an overarching federal bill.

>In doing so, the companies would be able to control their messaging through their extensive lobbying efforts, allowing them to push for a weaker statute that would nullify some of the provisions in California’s new privacy law. In doing so, companies wouldn’t have to spend a ton on more resources to ensure their compliance with a variety of statutes in multiple states.

Is it really that much easier to control a federal vs. state legislator?

I wonder if the idea might actually be to prevent the likely future scenario in which 50+ different privacy regulations need compliance. Setting a national standard could prevent such an outcome.

Privacy advocates should favor the state-by-state solution, though. The more difficult it is to comply with regulations, the more expensive it becomes to collect the data in the first place.

As the cost of compliance increases, the alternative of simply not collecting the data in the first place becomes more attractive.

But that itself can lead to unintended consequences. It would mean that only the biggest companies could afford the regulatory burden of collecting the data. And these are the very companies that have received the most negative attention.

All of which makes me wonder whether at some point we could see a private data settlement along the lines of the tobacco settlement:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobacco_Master_Settlement_Agre...

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#259
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know it's a hypothetical, but it is very much the kind of thing that could happen. Regulations don't always align across political borders, which means there's the possibility there being no way to comply with both.

This is what you call putting the cart before the horse.

I was just thinking of it as a good reason to encourage harmonization of regulation.

Re: Silicon Valley is terrified of California’s privacy law

#260
post #52

I see a lot of comments deriding this law, can someone explain to me why these are bad things? Quoting from this article - https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/28/landmark-california-privac... - Businesses must disclose what information they collect, what business purpose they do so for and any third parties they share that data with. - Businesses would be required to comply with official consumer requests to delete that d…

- Consumers can opt out of their data being sold, and businesses can’t retaliate by changing the price or level of service.

If the price of the service is based on the ability to sell data, how is it reasonable to disallow the business from changing the price of the service for those who opt out?

Also, how can you reconcile this with being allowed to offer financial incentives for being allowed to collect it?

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