Earlier quoted context omitted.
Overpopulation rhetoric is eugenics.
No it's not. There are too many humans on the planet. Reducing the number would lead to a more sustainable situation. That's just basic logic.
You first.
Birds Are Vanishing from North America
81–90 of 372 posts
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#82This apparently isn't a popular opinion, but: this world is precious. I would even go so far as to say miraculous . Until we wake up to this fact, we will continue to ennui ourselves and this world into oblivion. It's hard to prove (or even study), but I believe this is the root cause of all the other tragedies. It is not something we will merely engineer our way out of. We don't like religion (or in many cases, even…
> Until we wake up to this fact That is not really the case here. I woke up already long ago, but there is no way I can stop the idiots. Only governments can take action by law, not me. France and Germany will not allow for Facebooks' Libra coin. It shows how fast they can act if their economy is at stake. But for decades already they allow pesticides for agriculture. They could and should know about allowing for mas…
Germany managed to outlaw glyphosate. That's the government reacting to pressure from voters (especially the massive gains of the Green party).
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#83(serious) Is there any hope? Its just one problem after another (probably because everything is linked). What are the chances that we will get our act together or be able to engineer ourselves out of all of these problems?
Trim the world population
I don't get this argument. How are we going to decide who is trimmed? Who does the trimming? How will they be trimmed? It's a non-starter. Sure we may have too many people but who would actively support killing people? especially when the people causing the most damage are the wealthiest that read sites like this
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I prefer to keep "kill all humans" lower down on the list of possible solutions to environmental problems. Lets try some alternatives first.
I don't understand the persistent misstating what lowering the population means. It's no secret we're all going to die. We don't need to kill anyone. As for alternatives, we've exhausted plenty. Growth, in particular, has failed. Stepping on the gas pedal is not slowing us down. When should we step on the brake? After we drive off the cliff feels too late.
But that's the thing. Our behavior, in overshooting global carrying capacity, will lead to increasing death rates. From famine, war, disease, etc.
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#85This apparently isn't a popular opinion, but: this world is precious. I would even go so far as to say miraculous . Until we wake up to this fact, we will continue to ennui ourselves and this world into oblivion. It's hard to prove (or even study), but I believe this is the root cause of all the other tragedies. It is not something we will merely engineer our way out of. We don't like religion (or in many cases, even…
That's a central thesis of Dawkin's Unweaving the Rainbow. Understanding that a rainbow is caused by the prismatic effect of water droplets in the air makes it more miraculous, not less.
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
I prefer to keep "kill all humans" lower down on the list of possible solutions to environmental problems. Lets try some alternatives first.
"Stop having multiple children for Christ's sake" is a great alternative.
But Christ said to go forth and multiply? :D
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> or we die out and the planet recovers on its own. That makes it sound like there's some kind of natural 'ideal state' for the planet to recover to. Without us, the planet would just go on changing, without anything to judge the current environment at any point as good or bad to any particular standard. Saving the environment is simply saving ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
I would never use the phrase "ideal state", but rather "natural state". Though, even that is not quite accurate as humans are naturally-occurring too, but the things we do (and do to the planet) are not quite so "natural". While thinking that "the planet is worse off because of humans" is a judgement, I think it's not unreasonable to assert that innocent life forms all over the world suffer by our actions (more than…
In my ponderings on this, I tend to think of a "post-human state." If the influence of homo sapiens on a place or ecosystem were to decrease dramatically, and insofar as any place or ecosystem would tend toward anything resembling equilibrium rather than constant/continued change, most of them will probably stabilize around a discernibly post-human state, rather than the pre-human one that prevailed throughout most of our history until the industrial era. It's just the lowest-energy and most likely outcome. So like, all the kudzu, rats and other wacky species we've introduced here and there, would have a go. Though they might not all make it. Pretty much impossible to predict, because it's a chaotic system, but also because the effects of the heat we've introduced have only started to play out.
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
>What are the chances that we will get our act together or be able to engineer ourselves out of all of these problems? Engineering is what got us into this problem. Foolish to hope it can get us out.
Rowing the boat got us out this far, it would be foolish to think that rowing the boat could get us back /s
Well, the further you go, the less likely is it that you can row it back... What is the exact opposite of engineering.
What means that you made a clear point, that I don't think anybody misunderstood, with a clear optimistic message. Still I think it's more pessimist than the reality.
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#89We're swimming in environmental problems. We can come up with makeshift solutions to many, but for solving them all, and not to suggest it's the only solution, but a part of anything comprehensive, is there any environmental problem that a smaller human population doesn't alleviate?
We're exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet. The alternatives are either less people on the planet, lower standard of living, or resources from off the planet.
The carrying capacity of the planet is technology dependent.
Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America
#90This hurts to know. I know we are living through an extinction event but having numbers like these really make it sink in.
I feed the birds in my backyard every day, it's a joy to observe the variety that live in just a small grove of trees.
I have a tendency to always look up in the sky and take note of soaring birds of prey, they are awe-spiring to say the least.