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Birds Are Vanishing from North America

nytimes.com

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Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#51

Post by pvaldes »

jjuhl wrote: post #18
fjabre wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats true. Reddit seems to be more infested with the pro monsanto crowd. Many of their arguments sound very legitimate as in - try feeding the human race some other way type arguments. But then we must consider this ongoing mass extinction event which seems intimately tied to the use of pesticides and herbicides that apparently, according to the experts, are not harmful to unintended insect populations. It’s hard to…

"try feeding the human race" - How about we reduce our impact on the planet by not feeding all of the human race? Reducing the number of humans on the planet seems like it would be a great first step in solving the overall problem.

Returning to WWII is a scaring but it seems that increasing popular idea. We can do it better, and we must do it better this time.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#52

Post by siempreb »

bsmitty5000 wrote: post #2

This article doesn't mention the declining insect population at all but I would think it's clear that a quickly declining food source would be a major cause of population decline. I wonder if there's a similar decline in other animals that rely on insects, eg bats. Although, interestingly, the article does mention neonicotinoids as a direct reason for the decline in population. It's hard to imagine humans taking the…

Indeed, insect population decline was the first cause that came to mind, and then I read:

> In addition to habitat loss, pesticides may have taken a toll.

Which is also the main cause for insect population decline. I just cannot believe why governments still allow the use of pesticides, it is so damn wrong just for economic purpose.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#53

Post by dec0dedab0de »

Isinlor wrote: post #29
imglorp wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bought by Bayer, that name will be gone soon because of the well earned negative perceptions.

Well, not sure if Bayer is such a good name either. Bayer was part of conglomerate producing Zyklon B used by Germans to kill millions of people.

I mean they also were the first to market Heroine, that hasn't really stopped sales of asprin.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#54

Post by bt848 »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #35

Since I almost never see it mentioned in any threads related to this subject, am I thrilled that the main article actually references Silent Spring. I remember growing up that people thought that we had somehow managed to avoid the future it portrayed, but no, we have not. Another generation and the purveyors of death are back selling the cure for other species some people haven't learned to live in balance with.

People also think we avoided the future predicted by “The Population Bomb” but we didn’t.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#55

Post by dougmwne »

tylerpachal wrote: post #7

(serious) Is there any hope? Its just one problem after another (probably because everything is linked). What are the chances that we will get our act together or be able to engineer ourselves out of all of these problems?

I've been working in environmental advocacy for about 8 years. I'm pretty sure we won't go extinct. I am also pretty sure this era of peace and prosperity is coming to a close. I think new technical solutions are coming, but I don't think they're getting here fast enough to guarantee that every country will get enough food. I recommend your children move to higher latitudes and altitudes.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#56

Post by guerrilla »

blablabla123 wrote: post #43
monktastic1 wrote: post #36

This apparently isn't a popular opinion, but: this world is precious. I would even go so far as to say miraculous . Until we wake up to this fact, we will continue to ennui ourselves and this world into oblivion. It's hard to prove (or even study), but I believe this is the root cause of all the other tragedies. It is not something we will merely engineer our way out of. We don't like religion (or in many cases, even…

I think the modern, post-religious intellectual discourse has not even space for metaphysics. Anything in this direction is considered mumbo jumbo. :-) Materialism probably hasn't reached its peak yet.

The history of metaphysics is people denying that they're doing metaphysics. Materialism and scientific realism in science and various forms of Platonism and structuralism in mathematics are just too prevalent for people to even notice them at this point.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#57

Post by jjuhl »

Kiro wrote: post #42
lostconfused wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ideal state" is inserted by your own bias. There are plenty of changes made by humans to the planetary system and some of them will be undone once humans are not around to maintain those changes.

So what? What's the higher purpose?

Purpose? Ultimately there is none, of course. But short term there's the prolonged existence of our species.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#58

Post by throwaway66920 »

jjuhl wrote: post #39
uptown wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you suggest we kill?

Noone in particular. Just let the lack of food do its thing. Or if you want to actively do something, then pick 50% at random.

> Noone in particular. Just let the lack of food do its thing.

So the poor then?

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#59

Post by outworlder »

aeternum wrote: post #33
technothrasher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or we die out and the planet recovers on its own. That makes it sound like there's some kind of natural 'ideal state' for the planet to recover to. Without us, the planet would just go on changing, without anything to judge the current environment at any point as good or bad to any particular standard. Saving the environment is simply saving ourselves. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's also unlikely that all humans would die out even from severe climate change given our current technology. You could say that saving the environment is just saving the current set of humans, or our modern way of life. It definitely sounds much less noble when put that way though.

> It's also unlikely that all humans would die out even from severe climate change given our current technology.

Up to a point, you could artificially sustain small populations (climate-controlled greenhouses and habitation). But there's a limit. We are not able to recreate the whole biosphere yet.

Re: Birds Are Vanishing from North America

#60

Post by guerrilla »

bt848 wrote: post #54
hyperion2010 wrote: post #35

Since I almost never see it mentioned in any threads related to this subject, am I thrilled that the main article actually references Silent Spring. I remember growing up that people thought that we had somehow managed to avoid the future it portrayed, but no, we have not. Another generation and the purveyors of death are back selling the cure for other species some people haven't learned to live in balance with.

People also think we avoided the future predicted by “The Population Bomb” but we didn’t.

People who are experts that is.
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