Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

pragprog.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 121 posts

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#51

Post by 16bytes »

jkaptur wrote: post #39

I was underwhelmed by this book. I think that so many of the practices (like version control) have become so popular that reading an argument for their use seems superfluous. That also makes it really jarring when it recommends something that decidedly hasn't taken off, like the blackboard design pattern. I had the same experience reading "The Design of Everyday Things". To some extent, these books seem most valuable…

I found it curious that you felt a lot of material was anachronistic. Perhaps that's because I was around as a professional before it was the normal and have recommended this book so many times.

When I review the list of tips--which for those unfamiliar, is basically a list of take-aways sprinkled through each chapter--I find the list more timeless than anything.

https://pragprog.com/the-pragmatic-programmer/extracts/tips

The number of times I've told people that "select" isn't broken, or to use tracers, or fix broken windows is more than I can count.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#52

Post by WalterBright »

jkaptur wrote: post #39

I was underwhelmed by this book. I think that so many of the practices (like version control) have become so popular that reading an argument for their use seems superfluous. That also makes it really jarring when it recommends something that decidedly hasn't taken off, like the blackboard design pattern. I had the same experience reading "The Design of Everyday Things". To some extent, these books seem most valuable…

When I finally read Romeo and Juliet, I was surprised at how many cliches and tropes were in it.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#53

Post by diminoten »

cuddlecake wrote: post #44
diminoten wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The book isn't meant to be read front to back, the "most relevant" parts of the book for your situation aren't magically going to appear at the beginning. Try reading it again, this time thinking of each chapter as its own, separate story. Don't fall into the trap of "This is popular so I'm going to express criticism". If you want to, you can extract a great deal of wisdom from this book.

Don't fall into the trap of "This is criticism of something popular merely because it is popular"! Hehe, no offense, just talking to myself.

Sounds like you may have.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#54

Post by diminoten »

Supermancho wrote: post #45
diminoten wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies like to make money, and they can't make money when systems fail. If maintaining a codebase causes burnout, maybe software isn't for you.

I don't think you understand what "maintenance" means here. If you make them well enough for the job, you haven't succeeded at your job. If you make them well enough for the job and you don't need to constantly watch for failures, you have succeeded at your job. If you can't say "this is as good as it can be done" for a given piece of software, you might have room to grow.

I understand just fine, it just sounds like software is too hard for some folks, and while that's okay, but there are those of us who aren't burned out by doing our jobs.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#55

Post by diminoten »

Falling3 wrote: post #43
diminoten wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies like to make money, and they can't make money when systems fail. If maintaining a codebase causes burnout, maybe software isn't for you.

That just sounds like a deliberately obtuse misreading of the parent's comment.

Howso?

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#56

Post by gmiller123456 »

Though I've never read the book, I've seen it mentioned so many times, I've gone to look at and skim pieces of it many, many times. My impression, which I agree could be completely wrong but I'd still be willing to bet money on it, is that the book is poorly organized and really just seems to be a really long rant. It's impossible to tell what a chapter or section is about from its heading. To me, that tells me the authors really didn't have a solid concept of what point they wanted to make before they started. From what I've skimmed, most of the knowledge seems like things that shouldn't need to be said, perhaps some people need to hear them. Without some sort of organization it's impossible to tell which parts of the book might be worth reading for me, I certainly don't need to read all of it.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#57

Post by codesushi42 »

commandlinefan wrote: post #40
codesushi42 wrote: post #21

I... I don't know. I have never read this book. Ironically, I have read and enjoyed many books from PragProg. But this one always struck me as a "fufu" book, written around giving advice that one can independently reason and acquire during one's career. Am I wrong? Is this book worth reading if you already have many years of experience under your belt?

> Is this book worth reading If you have a day to kill, it's an entertaining read, and if you're an experienced developer, you'll find yourself shaking your head or nodding along throughout. But it's mostly just entertaining, well-written anecdotes - there's not really that much to _learn_ there.

This is exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Thank you sir.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#58

Post by codr7 »

I read the first edition back in the days; and again, and again. Back then, during my first years working as a programmer, it was a gold mine and definitely helped push me in the right direction.

One of my favorite authors wrote that every book eventually becomes a prison for the mind. At some point you will transcend the content which means it's time to move on. But that doesn't change anything about the book, it's still as excellent as ever for others.

The only constant in this universe is change.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#59

Post by SloopJon »

jkaptur wrote: post #39

I was underwhelmed by this book. I think that so many of the practices (like version control) have become so popular that reading an argument for their use seems superfluous. That also makes it really jarring when it recommends something that decidedly hasn't taken off, like the blackboard design pattern. I had the same experience reading "The Design of Everyday Things". To some extent, these books seem most valuable…

I think it really depends on when you read it. Code Complete was in the first handful of books I read about the practice of programming, apart from language-specific books, and I loved it. Years later I bought the second edition, having given away my first copy, but the magic was gone.

I didn't get much out of The Pragmatic Programmer myself. Maybe if I'd read it ten years earlier, it would have been my Code Complete.

Re: The Pragmatic Programmer, 20th Anniversary Edition

#60

Post by lolinder »

commandlinefan wrote: post #38
tedunangst wrote: post #8

There's some good advice in the book, but I found the majority of it seems to be rather goldilocks flavored. Implement the features you need, but don't add too many, but don't omit important ones either. Write some documentation, but not too much or too little. Etc. You read it, and oh yes, very wise, but not really helpful? Not much here would be useful in resolving a dispute between two programmers, one who wants t…

> goldilocks flavored Sadly true of far too many "influential" books. Although I did enjoy reading it, I finished it in an afternoon - if that's possible, it's probably not hiding any real deep wisdom.

I haven't read the book, but I have to challenge the assumption here. That you didn't get anything out of it in an afternoon's sprint through it does not make it "probable" that it's not hiding any deep wisdom. It could mean that, or it could mean that you didn't stop to digest what it was actually saying.
Post reply on HN