In European countries I visited, primarily Scandinavian ones, they take such pride in their social system. If some European countries is any example, publicly run healthcare can incentivize innovation in private health insurances. Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? Any Europeans healthcare users have opinions on the healthcare system there? Any wi…
"Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? " I don't think so. The systems are very different. But if you get sick in another country they won't rip you off like they doing in the US. My sister from Germany was charged $1200 when her daughter had a fever in NYC. She talked to a doctor for 5 minutes and got an antibiotic.
Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
81–90 of 101 posts
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your prior plan was part of what made care more expensive for sick people.
Absolutely. And we should have just gone to a single-payer system. Instead we have this useless compromise that further transfers wealth from the middle class to the rich. I don't want what I had back, but I don't want what we have now either.
Here's the a rundown of what single-payer would cost in California:
* $400 billion total (2x the entire existing California budget)
* $200 billion in additional expenditures (the first $200 billion being covered by what people, employers, and state and federal programs already pay)
* "Under one scenario, the average statewide sales tax rate would have to jump from 8.5 percent to nearly 37 percent to generate the amount of revenue needed. Under another, California would have to create a new 15 percent payroll tax, withholding $150 from a $1,000-a-week paycheck."
Source: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-aler...
So, yeah, good luck with that, considering that we can barely keep the ACA alive. Of course you paid less before the ACA. It's a fairly safe assumption you were a healthy, young or middle-aged person without any pre-existing health conditions. But one day that will change; hopefully your fellow Americans won't be as indignant about having to fork over more money to benefit someone else.
Perhaps you were paying more than what other people in other states had to pay (for example, in California premiums never really went up much), but whatever the amount you were paying more to subsidize healthcare for others who previously didn't have it or had too little of it. If you think this country is going to get single-payer without you paying significantly more....
And even if you were okay with that, 40-50% of Americans aren't okay with any tax increase. The amount of Americans willing to vote for a 10-20% across the board tax increase is probably in the single-digits. So no matter how many people want a better system, even more more people have a stronger aversion to more taxes. (The overlap is, of course, enormous.) It's irresponsible to advocate for a system that isn't politically viable. Just like the previous broken system, and just like with the ACA today, it will fail unless and until people are willing to accept more taxes or, at a minimum, commit to the existing system and make the best of it by refining it. (BTW, single-payer is the exception across Western Europe and Japan, the very same places Americans love to point at as better models.)
As a practical matter, the ACA went as far as it could in terms of costs that could be covered without a significant raise in taxes, and in retrospect it was overly optimistic in our ability to cut costs. Of course, many people--particularly healthy people--were taxed in hidden ways, such as you were. And, FWIW, the huge increase of premiums in certain states could be fixed by those states. For one thing, they could make the exchanges easier, as well as offer better state-funded healthcare. These are two reasons why premiums never really went up much in California with ACA. But if you're not willing to make it work in your state, why should I assume you, as a fellow citizen, wouldn't be equally lazy and cynical when we have to make even more difficult decisions on a national scale?
Everybody has answers. And every politician is making promises. I'm sure the proposals from candidates like Bernie Sanders are theoretically fiscally possible, but only if you vanished 80% of Americans, replaced them with French and Canadian citizens, and then did the same for our healthcare infrastructure.
Politics is the art of the possible. Ideas and promises aren't worth squat. That's the problem today--every grand idea and promise is an excuse to turn our backs from resolving the hard problems; problems that would also need to be resolved for those grand ideas to have a snowflake's chance in hell of delivering; problems that once resolved would make the existing system infinitely more tolerable without having to go through a revolution.
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? " I don't think so. The systems are very different. But if you get sick in another country they won't rip you off like they doing in the US. My sister from Germany was charged $1200 when her daughter had a fever in NYC. She talked to a doctor for 5 minutes and got an antibiotic.
Fevers shouldn't get antibiotics...
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
An insurance company should be operating at cost though. They should all eventually compete on the lowest prices until someone reaches close to operating cost. It should be a race to the bottom. Also, part of the costs are related to inflated health care and med costs. Because insurer can pay more, health care can charge more. Their profit should come from them working to lower those prices, not from lowering their c…
No, economic theory says that perfectly competitive industries will operate at a nominal profit, not at cost. A 6% profit margin is probably not quite "nominal profit," but is below the average for all industries: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sageworks/2016/10/03/the-15-lea... .
And https://2012books.lardbucket.org/books/microeconomics-princi...
To see why in the long run perfectly competitive industries will earn zero economic profits.
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#85In European countries I visited, primarily Scandinavian ones, they take such pride in their social system. If some European countries is any example, publicly run healthcare can incentivize innovation in private health insurances. Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? Any Europeans healthcare users have opinions on the healthcare system there? Any wi…
"Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? " I don't think so. The systems are very different. But if you get sick in another country they won't rip you off like they doing in the US. My sister from Germany was charged $1200 when her daughter had a fever in NYC. She talked to a doctor for 5 minutes and got an antibiotic.
https://www.nhs.uk/using-the-nhs/healthcare-abroad/apply-for...
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no wisdom to impart. There are 2 countries in the world who do not have public healthcare: the US and Liberia. The US does not have public healthcare because of a lack of wisdom, it’s because of greed. Literally anything other than what you’re doing now is better. Roll the fucking dice on public health policy and it will be better than what you have now. It’s not a lack of wisdom, you aren’t even listening t…
> There is no wisdom to impart. There are 2 countries in the world who do not have public healthcare: the US and Liberia. Where is this from? There has to be example of countries without public healthcare. Off topic: I was just reading about Liberia yesterday because they have a similar style/structure of government to USA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberia#Politics .
But I did go looking for it! And what I found was that there are many people trying to muddy the definition of public healthcare. Sorry I mean universal healthcare. Actually, I mean single payer healthcare systems. No wait, I mean private-public!
Fuck it, “the healthcare system that doesn’t fuck over it’s patients”. That one. There’s only two countries who’s healthcare system still fucks over it’s patients.
If Syria, a barely functioning war-torn country, can run a public health system, so can the US.
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#87The US system really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Stories like this simply shouldn’t happen. There is almost no way as a patient to ensure your coverage is sufficient besides having a lot of money in case. It’s insane and hard to understand how anyone can defend this. With the lack of information the patient has nobody should talk about free markets. A functioning market requires that all participa…
Honestly, a free market might even be better than what we have (though something like single-payer would be ideal). As usual, we have the weird half-assed worst of both works policy solution that comes from neither self-consistent solution being palatable to the electorate.
So, a "free market" of health care would just be a reshuffling of the oligarchic arrangements.
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...
I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#89Guaranteed strategy for a progressive wave 2020 and a democratic president. Expect massive executive action to address climate change and end corruption. There's nothing more evident than the greed of the insurance companies, it cuts bipartisan. Finally the hope of adults in the reigns again
I'm a proponent of universal healthcare, but pointing to "insurance industry greed" is a dishonest narrative. Health insurers are having a banner year, and that means their profit margins are approaching 6%. (By contrast, Facebook is regularly over 40%.) For the year ending Q3 2018, health insurer profits amounted to $25 billion, industry wide , which is about the same as Google alone makes in a year. If running a bu…
Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely. And we should have just gone to a single-payer system. Instead we have this useless compromise that further transfers wealth from the middle class to the rich. I don't want what I had back, but I don't want what we have now either.
A single-payer system will require significantly more taxes, and those taxes will come out of your pocket. Which is exactly why we'll never get a single-payer system. Everybody wants better this or that, but nobody wants to pay for it. Which, in a nutshell, is precisely what your rant amounts to. Here's the a rundown of what single-payer would cost in California: * $400 billion total (2x the entire existing Californi…
I also think single-payer is our best shot at getting spiraling costs under control.