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Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

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Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#61
post #2

Guaranteed strategy for a progressive wave 2020 and a democratic president. Expect massive executive action to address climate change and end corruption. There's nothing more evident than the greed of the insurance companies, it cuts bipartisan. Finally the hope of adults in the reigns again

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Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…

Patent fees?

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#63
post #2

Guaranteed strategy for a progressive wave 2020 and a democratic president. Expect massive executive action to address climate change and end corruption. There's nothing more evident than the greed of the insurance companies, it cuts bipartisan. Finally the hope of adults in the reigns again

If Democrats in California can't muster the votes to outlaw something as uniformly hated as balance billing while they have the Governor's office and a supermajority in both houses, I'm afraid I don't have much faith in their ability to fix any of this at the federal level.

In 2009 California SC ruled that Balance Billing for emergencies is illegal https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-supreme-court/1001051.html

In 2017, a state law extended it for non-emergency services https://californiahealthline.org/news/you-are-now-protected-...

The bill in question is for self-funded health insurance which is pretty rare https://californiahealthline.org/news/for-millions-of-insure...

Overall Summary https://www.benefitspro.com/2019/07/11/hospitals-block-calif...

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…

> Socialized medicine is great for simple checkups, but breaks down as you get older and need major surgery

I'm going to have to ask for a source on this, it sounds like BS.

> I really don't want the government making these life or death decisions

I really don't want for-profit private corporations making these life or death decisions. History has shown that when corporations get to choose between life and profits, they choose profits.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#65
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said “except some very basic preventative care.” So you’re paying $12k/year for a 30m checkup and potentially still have to shell out $30 for a copay. Not sure why that doesn’t illustrate my point exactly.

Aren't you paying for insurance against the exact same thing that happened to the couple in the linked article? You're paying for coverage against a $250K bill for an unexpected health problem, not coverage for routine care. I've paid for car and home insurance for over a decade, but have gotten no paying from either, but that doesn't mean that I haven't gotten value out of it. I'd still purchase that insurance even…

Well again, you’re illustrating how screwed up American healthcare is. The reality is that most Americans need varying levels of routine care (vs insurance against catastrophic events only), and a system where healthcare is accessible via insurance instead of a system of universal healthcare doesn’t make sense for something that you need to access routinely.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

I don't look forward to this day. What many people don't realize is that the majority of new medicine is patented and created in the US. Once it's released, governments that have socialized health care create generics and get around these costs, mostly because they don't have to put any money into R&D. The world of medicine will be in trouble without our system, because govetnments are really not that good at innovat…

Trying to make this into an IP issue is bizarre. Most new, patented drugs are "me too" drugs that are just sufficiently different from existing drugs to achieve the patent. Doesn't cost much in R&D. Occasionally you'll get advances here and there -- a lot of them funded by government grants, though. (Not sure if you want to count that as government innovation, when they're not government employees, or just government-funded innovation.)

The biggest costs in bringing a new drug to the market aren't in R&D, but in gaining the FDA's approval (which is similarly arduous even in the "me too" drug cases) and in advertising. Here, a small snapshot of just one segment of the health industry: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/05/22/the-apa-meeting-a-phot...

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#67
post #30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An insurance company should be operating at cost though. They should all eventually compete on the lowest prices until someone reaches close to operating cost. It should be a race to the bottom. Also, part of the costs are related to inflated health care and med costs. Because insurer can pay more, health care can charge more. Their profit should come from them working to lower those prices, not from lowering their c…

No, economic theory says that perfectly competitive industries will operate at a nominal profit, not at cost. A 6% profit margin is probably not quite "nominal profit," but is below the average for all industries: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sageworks/2016/10/03/the-15-lea... .

I consider nominal profit to be pretty much "at cost", that's why I said "close to operating cost". OPs 6% number is neither. Your link even clearly demonstrate that, by listing 14 industries all with smaller margins and showing the average to be 7.7%, making 6% profits a farcry from nominal profits.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

"...tend to be pretty libertarian over all"

How do libertarians square their notion of freedom from coercion with their embrace of winner takes all economics?

Best as I can tell, the two are mutually exclusive.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#69
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An insurance company should be operating at cost though. They should all eventually compete on the lowest prices until someone reaches close to operating cost. It should be a race to the bottom. Also, part of the costs are related to inflated health care and med costs. Because insurer can pay more, health care can charge more. Their profit should come from them working to lower those prices, not from lowering their c…

The problem I'm afraid isn't the 6% margin, but the regulations that inhibit a truly competitive insurance market. To start with, state-based insurance is a legacy that makes no sense today. I'll gladly pay 6% if insurance companies went to bat on cost instead of half-colluding with providers, and innovated.

I agree with you, I believe there are even laws in place that prevent Medicare and Medicaid from negotiating on price. We're far from a free market utopia here. I'd be curious to hear some of the rational our downvoters have for downvoting us, hopefully some will leave a reply doing so.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are dying over healthcare, not over facebook.

Does the fact that people might die create an obligation to run your business like a charity? What even is your moral theory? That a company that makes 6% profits saving lives is evil, but a company that makes 40% profits and doesn't save any lives in the process is not evil? Apple makes laptops that, for the price of a single one, could save someone in Africa from malaria. The opportunity cost of every MacBook Pro i…

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