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Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

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Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#41

Post by blackflame7000 »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

I like your argument, my only concern is that the government also operates the VA and the DMV which doesn't give me much confidence. The problem is also on the cost side of things. Hospitals charge astronomical for basic things like saline solution ($595 with insurance from personal experience). We have to get costs down because both of these industries are enriching themselves by privately negotiating rates.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#42

Post by Johnny555 »

tempsy wrote: post #35
ryanobjc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Even the bronze plans cover doctor visits with just copays, no deductible to be met. Copays count towards deductibles. Now when you need hospital services, surgery, emergency, yes the deductible is formidable. After that they cover at some amount, 80% typically. So the notion you have to pay $12k first is a blatant lie. The bronze plans are akin to what low end employers used to/still offer. It’s better tha…

I said “except some very basic preventative care.” So you’re paying $12k/year for a 30m checkup and potentially still have to shell out $30 for a copay. Not sure why that doesn’t illustrate my point exactly.

Aren't you paying for insurance against the exact same thing that happened to the couple in the linked article?

You're paying for coverage against a $250K bill for an unexpected health problem, not coverage for routine care.

I've paid for car and home insurance for over a decade, but have gotten no paying from either, but that doesn't mean that I haven't gotten value out of it. I'd still purchase that insurance even if it weren't required.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#43

Post by old-gregg »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

The US system really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Stories like this simply shouldn’t happen. There is almost no way as a patient to ensure your coverage is sufficient besides having a lot of money in case. It’s insane and hard to understand how anyone can defend this. With the lack of information the patient has nobody should talk about free markets. A functioning market requires that all participa…

> [US healthcare] needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch...

Here are some numbers, just to provide perspective: [1]

The worst recession in recent history (2008-09) featured a drop of US GDP by -2.5%. The US healthcare spending per capita is about twice as high than EU average. US healthcare spending is about 17% of GDP. Which means if we somehow manage to fix it and bring it to average European levels, that would represent a drop of -8.5% GDP We haven't seen GDP drops like this since WW2.

So... I seriously doubt "rebuild from scratch" will work. We need a gradual, systematic cost cutting program spread over 10-15 years. And why aim at EU average? Let's make it the world's most efficient, while we're at it.

[1] quoting from memory, feel free to google & correct me

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#45

Post by seppin »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

> Makes sense to go single payer

Government as a single buyer of services from private health care providers. What's the problem?

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#46

Post by jbob2000 »

no_opinions wrote: post #29

In European countries I visited, primarily Scandinavian ones, they take such pride in their social system. If some European countries is any example, publicly run healthcare can incentivize innovation in private health insurances. Apparently EU citizens (and visa holders?) get a healthcare card that's portable across EU. Is this true? Any Europeans healthcare users have opinions on the healthcare system there? Any wi…

There is no wisdom to impart. There are 2 countries in the world who do not have public healthcare: the US and Liberia.

The US does not have public healthcare because of a lack of wisdom, it’s because of greed. Literally anything other than what you’re doing now is better. Roll the fucking dice on public health policy and it will be better than what you have now. It’s not a lack of wisdom, you aren’t even listening to the wisdom that surrounds you, it’s a complete lack of empathy for the sake of greed!

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#47

Post by Ididntdothis »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

Somehow other countries have figured it out. Europe has a wide variety of systems from mostly private to completely public but none is even remotely as insane as the US.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#48

Post by Ididntdothis »

old-gregg wrote: post #43
Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

The US system really needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch. Stories like this simply shouldn’t happen. There is almost no way as a patient to ensure your coverage is sufficient besides having a lot of money in case. It’s insane and hard to understand how anyone can defend this. With the lack of information the patient has nobody should talk about free markets. A functioning market requires that all participa…

> [US healthcare] needs to be torn down and rebuilt from scratch... Here are some numbers, just to provide perspective: [1] The worst recession in recent history (2008-09) featured a drop of US GDP by -2.5%. The US healthcare spending per capita is about twice as high than EU average. US healthcare spending is about 17% of GDP. Which means if we somehow manage to fix it and bring it to average European levels, that w…

"nd why aim at EU average? Let's make it the world's most efficient, while we're at it."

Yes setting impossible goals from the start is a good way to be successful. Not.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#49

Post by systematical »

Recently had an x-ray and an MRI done on my leg. My out of pocket cost was at least around $600. I'm not exactly sure what my health "insurance" covered. You never know what your insurance will cover until the bill arrives. What are my options? I don't have free choice. I have two plans offered by my employer. Shit and Shitty. Worse, they found nothing wrong with my ligaments. The x-ray was a waste. I was told to keep a "pain journal" of any specific movements and positions that cause discomfort.

Tear it down. I rather have the peace of mind that I am just covered no matter what, even if it means I pay a bit more in taxes. Let me focus on work and life. Not healthcare.

I do understand the problems this creates for a healthcare system organized around private insurance. I get this will have a negative impact on the economy by putting those companies out of work, but I'm deeply unsatisfied with this system. Even finding a doctor on my plan can be difficult.

Re: Health Insurance That Doesn’t Cover the Bills Has Flooded the Market

#50

Post by Frondo »

godzillabrennus wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60% of Americans believe the government (in some form) should ensure healthcare for its citizens (per Pew Research). 70% of Americans support Medicare for All. We’re going single payer (Medicare For All), it’s just a matter of when (the younger you are, the more you’re likely to support it). https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/10/03/most-contin... https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/412545-70-...

Makes sense to go single payer (and I tend to be pretty libertarian over all). Insurance is about having a pool of payers large enough for offsetting costs. The larger the pool in a nation with population growth the higher probability that a larger pool will be better. The largest pool is everyone. I don’t like calling it a human right. That implies the doctors are enslaved to provide care. No rational and highly int…

Of course they would be paid, just like doctors are paid everywhere there's universal health care available.

Access to a functioning justice system, as it ensures everyone access to laws, is arguably a human right, and yet no one ever says police, judges, or public defenders are slaves. Why is health care different?

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