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The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

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Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#181

Post by OrgNet »

eukaryote31 wrote: post #156
OrgNet wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are probably right... but what if it was like IPV6 where there are so many IPs that they should never run out... the unlimited storage dream.

Unlike IP addresses where you get exponentially more of them per unit cost (i.e size), storage space costs 1 bit per bit.

I don't think that you understand what I said... I don't mean that IP addresses have anything to do with physical space. I only mean it in the sense that IPv6 supposedly solved a problem and we need the same thing to happen to storage space.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#182

Post by dragonwriter »

food_eater wrote: post #165
not_a_cop75 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about a Communist manifesto or other authoritarian literature? Why are we only really concerned about one type of authoritarian?

[flagged]

> It's currently in-vogue to be scared of and hate nazi's. For some reason though that sentiment never took root against communists.

Er, what now?

It really took root against communists (and socialists), even those of both of the those groups that weren't Leninists, in the US almost immediately after the Russian Revolution and only started to fade a bit after the fall of the Soviet Union 70+ years later, and even now a full century later it has significant, though less, pull in the US.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#183

Post by colejohnson66 »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #139
toomuchtodo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Internet Archive has no physical presence in the UK to my knowledge.

They copy websites from UK servers. They extend their presence to UK jurisdiction in order to do that.

So when I copy a UK website from to my browser cache, I’m subject to UK jurisdiction? That makes no sense.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#185

Post by kd3 »

tpmx wrote: post #17
kd3 wrote: post #3

These guys are heroes.

I used to think that. Then I tried volunteering via their IRC channel and was met with some next level hostility. My read is: a) They're doing a job that needs to be done. b) They're relatively flush with cash from donors c) They're not nearly as efficient as they could be. d) The people there seemed more concerned about competition than collaboration. e) Probably most controversial: The organization seems like it ha…

Don't know about the organization, but their ux and tech could definitely use some updates to bring it to 2019 levels of expectation. Aside from that, we are lucky to have them.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#186

Post by lopmotr »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #122
devmunchies wrote: post #104

> But Mr Graham argued that simply removing false information or offensive content isn’t necessarily the answer. Hateful material need not remain publicly available, he said, but certain researchers and politicians should be able to study it. They're planting the seed and seeing how the public reacts. This is ridiculous! Mark something "controversial", "possibly fake", but don't memory-hole us. An archive only archiv…

There is no public-interest benefit in hate screeds. Those are memetic viruses with established body counts and should be studied, if at all, in the manner one studies smallpox.

You do realize you're describing quite a lot of popular books such as the Quran and the Communist Manifesto, right? You want to quarantine them to research labs only?

How is the world now so filled with people who are afraid of ideas? Have you run out of real problems to worry about? Or are you just too young and naive to realize that ideas aren't simply good and evil and that, alone, they don't cause people to do things? Nazism, for instance, came about because the people were being oppressed as a result of losing WWI and it was a rebellion against that oppression. It wouldn't work without the oppression. The idea itself is not the problem.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#187

Post by kd3 »

OrgNet wrote: post #137
devmunchies wrote: post #104

> But Mr Graham argued that simply removing false information or offensive content isn’t necessarily the answer. Hateful material need not remain publicly available, he said, but certain researchers and politicians should be able to study it. They're planting the seed and seeing how the public reacts. This is ridiculous! Mark something "controversial", "possibly fake", but don't memory-hole us. An archive only archiv…

Apparently, we need a storage capacity breakthrough so that everyone can store everything so that we do not have to relay on what someone else say is acceptable.

What we need is good p2p tech that will enable distributed storage that is impossible to censor while also automatically providing gazillion terabytes of storage distributed over all peers. Problem solved.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#188

Post by lopmotr »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #142
narrator wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... people are stupid and easily manipulated. Democracy is just a skinner box run by all the god like people who know better than all the stupid sheep, right?

People are smart but there's a problem with smarts - it's surprisingly easy to talk yourself into something you can't talk yourself out of. High intelligence makes this worse, if anything. Some ideas need to be quarantined because by the time you start doing the "are we the baddies" skit, you've already built Dachau.

Please confirm that you want to globally eradicate Islam from public awareness. That's what you said but I'm not sure if it's what you mean.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#189

Post by dragonwriter »

tracker1 wrote: post #167
food_eater wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

And people completely forget history... there were several popular variants of totalitarian socialism in europe. Russia in particular had civil-war like conflicts between the main 3 factions (iirc, red, green, white) and facism was definitely in the mix, but after WWII fell out and for some weird reason no longer considered socialist. After WWII, there were definite anti-communist movements, though McCarthyism took t…

Fascism was pretty much never considered socialist by much of anyone outside of the Nazi flavor trying to coopt the label, and the American Right engaging in revisionism in the last couple decades.

Re: The Internet Archive is waging war on misinformation

#190

Post by lolinder »

journalctl wrote: post #163
JulianMorrison wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they would be wrong. Liberation literature is not in the same category as hate screeds. I don't buy the moral abdication you're selling. You know what's evil - it's the stuff full of race hate and misogyny. There is no moral equivalence.

It’s amazing how if you try to make a progressive political point here, you tend to get criticized. But when it comes time to judge the morality of things like racism or misogyny, suddenly it’s impossible to know the morality of any idea ever.

People aren't arguing that racism and misogyny are moral, they're arguing that if you allow any censorship at all, then someone must be appointed censor, and you may not agree with that someone. The only way to be sure that your ideas can be freely expressed is to allow everyone, no matter how immoral, to freely express their ideas.
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