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Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

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Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#171

Post by mixmastamyk »

mxuribe wrote: post #144
mixmastamyk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a lot of places, yes. However, try getting even a "no thank you" form letter in response to a job post at a desirable company without a degree. First step in the hiring funnel: no 4-year degree --> /dev/nul. I live nearby Netflix, Space X, Hulu, JPL, etc with twenty years experience in what they do and have never even spoken to a single person at any of them despite applying for years. I'm good at what I do, now I…

It certainly is possible that the HR folks at the places you've applied just are not reading correctly the skills and experience that you have conveyed. I think i heard some people refer to this as an "HR Fail". While it hurts you (by not getting you that job), it hurts the company far more, because they lost out on talented individual. The alternative could be that they're discriminating you because of your age. Jus…

I get quite a good response rate in general, and most folks are rather impressed with my resume. The visual design as well. Its one weakness is having only a two-year degree.

There's not a lot of dates on it though, and only go into detail over the last ten years. So while ageism is a thing I've encountered when people see me, this happens long before that moment.

Not surprising at any place that receives a hundred resumes a day. You need a leg up advantage just to get noticed. JPL was the worst, my application was rejected within 15 minutes of submitting.

If I had known it was possible to work at such a place as a kid, or that Netflix would even exist, I'd have gotten a degree.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#172

Post by commandlinefan »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #59
fiatjaf wrote: post #11

If you're going to hire a developer for their first job, don't think twice. Developers without degrees are better than developers with degress in 100% of the cases. If they don't have a degree that means they've learned something without being forced to, they love the subject and are genuinely interested.

What about people like me who taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing? All I knew is that my family had a computer and I had somehow peeked behind the GUI veil when I discovered DOS. I wound up researching in a CS program because I found it interesting and just kept wanting more.

> taught themselves to code long before they even knew CS was a thing

It seems like things are changing a bit, but back when I was in college in the late 80’s/early 90’s, this was almost everybody in the CS program. I don’t think I took a CS course with anybody who didn’t grow up banging on a C64 or Apple II or TRS-80 and hadn’t figured out quite a bit about software development concepts before they even learned algebra.

It does seem like the ubiquity of computers is changing this, though: computers are everywhere, but they’re so much more like consumer devices now that they’re paradoxically hard to figure out _how_ to program.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#173

Post by taurath »

mywittyname wrote: post #151
tombert wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, you should definitely get a CS degree or similar if you want to be a programmer. I would have done a lot better having one even though I got by without it. Also, my career path was ridiculous and is entirely non-replicable. I agree completely. As a dropout, I've had people bother me asking how they should go about a career in tech, and I will tell them unambigously "for the love of god, please go to school". S…

> Being self-taught is fun, but without credentials you end up having to work at companies that are willing to take chances, and as a result of that these companies have a propensity towards going bankrupt This is one of the notable difference between my pre- and post-degree careers: a degree opened the door to jobs with stable Megacorps. I still get the opportunity to work on cool, cutting-edge stuff, while also hav…

After a few years of experience I’ve not had a problem getting interviews at megacorps - it’s just too competitive right now trying to find coders.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#174

Post by joshmanders »

wvenable wrote: post #87
samstokes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case you're not aware, there is evidence [1] that this sort of "required but not really" job posting deters a lot of people, and especially women, from applying even if they would actually meet the (unstated) actual requirements. Making it explicit that you will accept "experience and a good resume" in place of a CS degree might increase the diversity of your applicant pool. [1] https://hbr.org/2014/08/why-women-d…

The whole point of my comment is to encourage people to who don't exactly meet the requirements to apply. I might attempt to make that more explicit next time but it's a slow process.

Why would I waste my time applying if it specifically states a CS degree is required? If you don't REQUIRE it, state that. It's not encouraging at all.

Last time I was applying for work, I sent out 150 applications/resumes, every single one I look at the list of requirements, if I don't meet one of them, I don't apply because it's a waste of my time.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#175

Post by Phillips126 »

I may have to try this job board out sometime.

I hold a 4 year degree in Graphic Design and sort of fell into programming. I was working at a small print company as the only graphic designer and was being "groomed" to take over the management position. I was asked often to provide quotes, make orders, take calls from customers, etc. We didn't have a good system in place for quoting or keeping track of our workflow so I started building a dashboard with PHP. In the end I really loved the work I was doing, it felt good knowing I was providing a ton of value. When they asked me to take the management position I told them that I was going to work for another company as a web developer (they loved the dashboard there as well). I worked in that position for 2 years making similar dashboards/internal applications when the company decided it was time to start a Software Department and hired another developer to work beside me.

I've now been with the company for 5 years but things are starting to get a bit rocky with the lack of meaningful work to do. I'm dreading the interviewing process as I feel inadequate not having a formal CS degree - despite several years of experience in software development. We've made cool things (surgical training simulators, dashboards for manufacturing, custom BLE Mesh network, mobile applications to name a few) but I feel they may just be overlooked by the recruiters.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#176

Post by taqwerty »

jedberg wrote: post #83
benbristow wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did Big O Notation in college and I still can't remember which notation is faster/slower. After college/university you begin to forget a lot of the specific textbook stuff and begin to replace it with the put-food-on-your-table practical stuff.

Absolutely. But Big O still comes up in practical stuff depending on what you're doing. You can usually get by without it, but sometimes when you need to process a few 100 terabytes of log files, having a basic grasp on Big O comes in handy for reducing your processing time from days to hours by picking the right algorithm.

In practice I've always found avoiding premature optimization and then profiling better than worrying about Big O.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#177

Post by uwuhn »

mav3rick wrote: post #127
Ancalagon wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a degree, but this is such an over-generalized comment. Many degree-owners have those same gaps you talked about, and some self-taught devs do not. I can't comment on Bootcamps, mainly because there seems to be a huge range in quality of graduates from those.

The point is probability. The probability of someone having these gaps from a top 50 school is way lower than one without a degree.

Why didn't your original comment contain the 'top 50' addendum?

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#178

Post by uwuhn »

lostgame wrote: post #160
rmilejczz wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When as the last time understanding how threading works helped you in your day to day job? I ask earnestly as a professional self taught developer who doesn’t know how threading works and has never needed to

I’m guessing you don’t do a lot of work in games or media. o.o Geez, how about even a network call that doesn’t interrupt a UI thread?

GCD and Operation Queues :)

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#179

Post by jamesb93 »

honkycat wrote: post #136

How do you know someone doesn't have a CS degree? They'll tell you. You're right: Nobody cares you don't have a degree. It's not impressive, it is just normal. What I have a problem with is the huge chip on people's shoulders about "not having a degree" and insisting on dissing anyone who chose to go a different route. I have a CS degree, I went to school on a scholarship, did not have these massive loans and "wasted…

Sorry, but do you read your own comments out loud? This reeks of a kind if snobbery, just not the type you're snobby against.

Re: Show HN: I made a jobs board for developers without degrees

#180

Post by Spoom »

wendyshu wrote: post #75
zzzeek wrote: post #36

I don't have a degree (though I do have a few years of college in the CS /engineering fields) and I'm pretty sure every programming job I've ever had required a "degree", if you were to look at their posted job requirements. If it's known that you can do the work (which is the kicker of course), I've never seen an employer hiring people to write code actually care about the degree. Even in academic environments I've…

You say "I would have done a lot better having one". Explain?

As someone in a comparable situation, I would have skipped the 5-7 years it takes to be considered "or equivalent experience". I don't speak for OP though.

(That said, I also paid off what little student loans I had much quicker than some of my friends, so...)

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