Why We Don't Skip Photoshop • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#11

Post by petervidani » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 5:30 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

I could maybe see this argument holding up a few years prior, but I think CS3 has had a remarkable influence on my workflow (compared to say, CS2). Having run the last 2 versions on the same Intel machine, there was immediate differences to note with the workspace and rendering times. I mean just compare the time it takes to load Photoshop and it justifies the upgrade.

I will be curious to see how lean the product stays when as the updates continue to roll in.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#12

Post by petervidani » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 5:35 PM UTC

redorb wrote: post #8

antidaily wrote: post #4

For the most part, Mr. Croft and 37signals work in too different arenas (as he points out). Bottom line: if you're designing a webpage, its still ok to start in photoshop. If you're designing an app with buttons and forms, start with HTML/CSS.

I think his point is if "You are only designing web apps that your will own and operate or are in a family of web apps that will have a similar look" then it is ok to skip photo shop

I agree. I think, like it's been said, that 37Signals is a special case. I believe in the field we all work in, it is wise to assume a graphic mockup as a step in the progress and then carefully decide whether or not it's a neutral step based on the history of projects you've completed. In other words, there is no bottom line.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#13

Post by josefresco » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 5:42 PM UTC

kyro wrote: post #3

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

What will you use instead?

Fireworks: vector based, built for websites and web apps. Unfortunately it's from Adobe now too, so you deal with bloat that Macromedia wasn't very fond of.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#14

Post by bkbleikamp » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 5:55 PM UTC

antidaily wrote: post #4

For the most part, Mr. Croft and 37signals work in too different arenas (as he points out). Bottom line: if you're designing a webpage, its still ok to start in photoshop. If you're designing an app with buttons and forms, start with HTML/CSS.

I know tons of designers and developers who prefer a wireframe before starting to work on a web app.

Omnigraffle and Visio both have great stencils for wireframing forms, buttons, and different UI elements.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#15

Post by bkbleikamp » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 5:57 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

Agreed. I have a few features in Photoshop that I use regularly, everything else I use sparingly if at all. Chances are they won't change my favorite features and the ones they add won't improve my work as a web designer.

Photoshop CS3 was a nice improvement because it was a universal binary, but I doubt i will be upgrading to CS4 when it is released.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#16

Post by bprater » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 6:04 PM UTC

sabat wrote: post #6

Why I voted this up: because the author suggests that there is not just one correct way to do something. Which is not what 37signals usually suggests.

Compelling writing often forces one to take a strong position.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#17

Post by bprater » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 6:16 PM UTC

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

I've used every version of Photoshop since 2.5 (thats back in the day before layers existed!), and I've consistently been more happy with each version that comes out.

Often, it's very simple subtle things that improve my workflow, like layer folders or improved styles or non-destructive layers.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#18

Post by sabat » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 6:34 PM UTC

jraines wrote: post #10

sabat wrote: post #6

Why I voted this up: because the author suggests that there is not just one correct way to do something. Which is not what 37signals usually suggests.

I don't think they ever suggest that their way is the only way. There's nothing wrong with saying how you do something and making a case for it; you don't have to add a disclaimer to everything you write about doing business.

I think you have a valid point. The reason I partially disagree with it is that attitude plays a part here. 37signals comes off as though they think they need to tell people how to live; they love being up in your grill. The contents of their posts are often reasoned well enough, but their attitude says "you suck; let us tell you how to suck less."

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#19

Post by sabat » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 6:35 PM UTC

bprater wrote: post #16

sabat wrote: post #6

Why I voted this up: because the author suggests that there is not just one correct way to do something. Which is not what 37signals usually suggests.

Compelling writing often forces one to take a strong position.

Agreed. My point is just that 37signals doesn't have to go as far as they do. A somewhat milder position would aid their message.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#20

Post by dcurtis » Thu, Jun 05, 2008, 6:57 PM UTC

bkbleikamp wrote: post #15

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

Agreed. I have a few features in Photoshop that I use regularly, everything else I use sparingly if at all. Chances are they won't change my favorite features and the ones they add won't improve my work as a web designer. Photoshop CS3 was a nice improvement because it was a universal binary, but I doubt i will be upgrading to CS4 when it is released.

What if CS4 is GPU-accelerated and offers the same (or more) performance as the jump to universal binary? Would that be an incentive to buy the upgrade?

I'm curious about how slow people feel Photoshop is; it works really quickly for me doing web-based stuff at 1 or 2 megapixels. Does it slow down working with 90 megapixel 300dpi images?