If only there was some way for people to live decently while working on anything they wanted to. Like, if there was some Universal way they could meet their Basic needs without having to devote all their energy towards extracting an Income out of for-profit companies or contract-for-hire schemes. Wow, then maybe there would be millions of people interested in computers who could work on all kinds of projects!
The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
281–290 of 375 posts
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you build a chair, you have a single chair. If you build some software, you can share that an infinite number of times. That chair has value. Maybe you can sell it, but maybe you just wanted to make a really nice chair. That software has value. Maybe you can sell it, but maybe you just wanted to make a really nice piece of software. But just because the software is infinitely copy-able doesn't make it worth infini…
Well, sure, I’m not even really arguing that its a bad thing. Personally, any code I publish online, I put under the MIT license because I don’t really care if people use it commercially or not. Its also the same argument used to say “piracy” isn’t harmful. I’m just pointing out that in open-source-as-a-hobby its very common that large corporations, who may or may not give back to the community themselves, derive pro…
I don't think it's simultaneously fair to release code in an open source license that allows commercial use and then be demoralized by that commercial use. The problem there is clearly one's own.
Companies may use open source software but they don't directly or indirectly profit from it; they can only profit from the value they provide on top of it. Software that is free for everyone cannot be a distinguishing feature.
Contributing to open source software, even if used by for-profit entities, is increasing the total state-of-the-art for the entire industry. If you are demoralized by that then you probably want a job, not a hobby.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Traditionally, OSS contributions are selfless labors of love and curiosity. These people are flexing their intellect and creativity doing something they thoroughly enjoy: solving problems in the most elegant way possible. Code is shared with an air of positivity, camaraderie, and we're-all-building-this-together. At the risk of sounding kitschy, it's this sense of collaboration that enables the open source community…
It's generally not a problem until the big companies start asking for features, asking for bugs to be fixed, etc., expecting anything more than what the maintainers choose to donate. If someone from Amazon reports a bug it's kind of scary, you feel like you've broken Amazon. You might even try to set aside time you weren't planning to set aside. It's hard to remember/enforce that you don't owe them that time (especia…
"I'm sorry, I'm busy having a beer and playing a game right now. But I can offer you a full refund?"
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my experience with moderators on Reddit, is that they are power driven adults who still act like teens.
It's the Stanford problem, but not everybody succumbs to the allure of power. We see it pretty much everywhere, like on IRC, where power-madness is an expected consequence of giving someone ops in a channel. You win some and you lose some, moderation isn't "set it and forget it," you have to remove some and acquire others from time to time.
> moderation isn't "set it and forget it," you have to remove some and acquire others from time to time.
A great point. Succinctly, the moderators need moderators.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's generally not a problem until the big companies start asking for features, asking for bugs to be fixed, etc., expecting anything more than what the maintainers choose to donate. If someone from Amazon reports a bug it's kind of scary, you feel like you've broken Amazon. You might even try to set aside time you weren't planning to set aside. It's hard to remember/enforce that you don't owe them that time (especia…
> If someone from Amazon reports a bug it's kind of scary, you feel like you've broken Amazon. Really? If Amazon filed a bug on one of my repos I'd probably see dollar signs flashing.
How would you go about getting paid for that? I doubt it would be possible, even if the people that reported it really want to and need it, they could never get approval from the bureaucrats.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#286Some other commenters in this thread have pointed out that nobody is forcing open source developers to work on the contributions that they make, and that is strictly speaking true. But in the culture of software development, there does seem to be an ambient message often repeated or hinted at, that it is good to "give back" to open source by contributing and that it is virtuous to do so. I now am starting to rethink…
It’s part of being a professional. We even have a word for it: pro bono. Volunteering your skills doesn’t make you a sucker.
Companies may not care about volunteer work when making hiring decisions, but that should not be why you do it.
You say most open source software is used by companies to better their bottom line, but if you’re making six figures through skilled work and not giving anything back to your community, I fail to see how that’s any better.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's generally not a problem until the big companies start asking for features, asking for bugs to be fixed, etc., expecting anything more than what the maintainers choose to donate. If someone from Amazon reports a bug it's kind of scary, you feel like you've broken Amazon. You might even try to set aside time you weren't planning to set aside. It's hard to remember/enforce that you don't owe them that time (especia…
You can politely ask these nice people to contribute funds towards your project that is so important to them. Since they are so nice, they will probably nicely send some money towards the oss developer.
That is the subject of the entire "oss funding" problem. Precisely that many companies are not willing to contribute funds even though the project is important to them. That's why this thread on HN exists.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's generally not a problem until the big companies start asking for features, asking for bugs to be fixed, etc., expecting anything more than what the maintainers choose to donate. If someone from Amazon reports a bug it's kind of scary, you feel like you've broken Amazon. You might even try to set aside time you weren't planning to set aside. It's hard to remember/enforce that you don't owe them that time (especia…
If Amazon doesn't pay you, then why are you scared of breaking Amazon? I understand why somebody would be scared of that. They're big and important to the tune of many many billions of dollars, while you or I are not. But you shouldn't let that get to you. You should make a conscious effort to not let that get to you. If they want you to take their problems personally, let them hire you. If they can be broken by you…
Well that is indeed what I said, you just have to get used to telling people that. That's the big problem. That's the reason this thread on HN exists. People trying to figure out the right path, how to ask for money on their little OSS projects, etc.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#289Some other commenters in this thread have pointed out that nobody is forcing open source developers to work on the contributions that they make, and that is strictly speaking true. But in the culture of software development, there does seem to be an ambient message often repeated or hinted at, that it is good to "give back" to open source by contributing and that it is virtuous to do so. I now am starting to rethink…
And that's why we have things like GPL and free software, which ensure, that contributions are brought back to the community.
If you want to have contributions brought back to the communities and not only rest inside for profit organizations, then perhaps choose a license to enforce that. This is what many open source people do not get: Many "don't care, it's open source"-licenses (MIT license for example) lack the backed in ethics of the free software licenses, which in contrast have been _designed_ to force contributions to be shared with the community.
When someone chooses an open source and not free software license, they can't complain afterwards, that modifications are not brought back as contributions for the community. That's just being uninformed.
Re: The Internet Relies on People Working for Free
#290What of it?
The linux literally exists because lots of people believe in something greater than "I need to be paid per line of code".
If you want to reduce it to a simple transactional level like that then year...they are not getting paid.
Even the article's example mentions a FOSS writer that got hired (and thus paid) literally because he is a famous FOSS writer...yet somehow he's not getting paid?
Yes FOSS crew deserves more credit and perhaps money but the logic is all over the place there.