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United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

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Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#51
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

When you send a letter it does not belong to the post office while in transit. Why are bits on a hard drive any different?

Can you point an originalist to the constitutional clause or amendment that grants such a right?

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#52
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try the 4th Amendment: > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

If I entrust data to Google, or my possessions to the safe of a bank, I am still injured when that trust is broken. I gave conditional access to one entity, not to everyone, and not to the government.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try the 4th Amendment: > The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

Not trying to plug Andrew Yang here, but this is a big part of his platform. He's advocating for a right-to-data bill that would make any and all data collected and transmitted yours.

If that goes into place, your data immediately becomes subject to these amendments. It does away with some of the legal grey area that surrounds data.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#54
post #29
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alleged spying on US citizens. I know the rest of us are fair game somehow. This could be a chance to get this before the courts, was my actual (badly communicated) point.

He released a lot more than the spying on US citizens. This lawsuit also appears to be about a different thing: the publication of his book. From the complaint (which is the government's side), he was supposed to get pre-authorization for publication and didn't. Therefore, the money from the book goes to the USG instead of Snowden.

Yes, but (frustratingly) it is not illegal within the US jurisdiction for the US government to violate a non-US person's privacy. The US constitution's bill of rights only protects americans.

Hence why the key point is that the US intelligence agencies spied on US citizens without warrants. I agree that they shouldn't be spying on anyone in this way (get a warrant!), but spying on US citizens in this way is super duper illegal, and therefore most clearly shows that the program itself was illegal.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#55
post #32

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Rightly or wrongly, that is not a part of the SF86 form when one applies for a clearance. The SF86 form offers no leeway for moral objections. So in such a scenario, it would be better to not submit the SF86 form in the first place. The only people I'm aware of that can publish classified information without punishment are journalists.

> The only people I'm aware of that can publish classified information without punishment are journalists.

The only people I am aware of which published this were journalists, since day 0.

E: I see this is particularly in the context of his publishing his memoirs now after reading the filing. My apologies

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#57

This seems like targeted harassment. Are those NDA's even valid anymore?

IANAL, nor have I read the NDA's (I'm hoping they will be publicly released as part of discovery) but I doubt NDA's with either the NSA or CIA will have an expiry date.

A breach of contract on the plaintiff's side could but not necessarily will nullify the NDA.

The best outcome for Snowden I think would be if he can demonstrate a greater good, IE: that breaking this contract prevents a larger crime, that would be up to the court to decide.

I find it interesting to see that the DOJ is not trying to prevent publication, just trying to intercept financial gains based on the premise that he didn't submit copy for review. At this point they are not claiming that he is actually publishing any confidential material.

Somehow I doubt Snowden's main motivation for publishing this book is financial, so I don't know if this will hurt him much..

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#58

”The United States’ lawsuit does not seek to stop or restrict the publication or distribution of Permanent Record. Rather, under well-established Supreme Court precedent, Snepp v. United States, the government seeks to recover all proceeds earned by Snowden because of his failure to submit his publication for pre-publication review in violation of his alleged contractual and fiduciary obligations.” What? Either he re…

The government generally can't restrict publication in the US no matter what is being published: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prior_restraint

But once something is published, they can take action against the publisher/author.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#59
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're an originalist (and I'm not saying that I am), data in transmit is not necessarily protected by that amendment If your data has left your house, is it really your data, or is it Google's say?

That wasn't the only program. They were also tapping into cell phones and laptop webcams for remote surveillance on targeted subjects, but without any constitutionally required warrant checks in place.

But was it illegal? And how would you know that such a warrant didn't actually exist in a court, particularly the FISA court?

It's possible that with FISA, everything under the so called warrantless wiretap program might be legal -- you just don't have access to prove it is.

Re: United States Files Civil Lawsuit Against Edward Snowden

#60

This is the "It is illegal to inform the citizen base that the government has removed their constitutional right" lawsuit. The NSA and FBI removed every US citizen of their constitutional right, to privacy. Edward Snowden informed the US citzen base on their constitutional rights being removed. This lawsuit is the government saying it is illegal for any US citizen to inform all other citizens when the government remo…

Given the fact the constitution binds the govt and details what rights the govt has I am not sure how the govt has a leg to stand on.
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