There is no defending Epstein. Though I think Stallman has made many valuable contributions to free software, I think he has fallen on his sword on this one for no good reason.
He did not defend Epstein.
Richard M. Stallman resigns
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Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#722RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
RMS was pointing out inaccuracies in how a deceased colleague who was being accused of a heinous crime might simply have slept with a prostitute, if at all (which turns out probably wasn't the case).
> This is a man who said something wildly inappropriate in an MIT forum and got fired.
This is a man who said something mildly inappropriate in a forum, as is his wont.
> He deserved it.
A completely appropriate and reasonable verdict, no doubt. Doubts are for unreasonable people, of which one you are not.
> I welcome anyone to provide a counter-argument.
Somehow I doubt that.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#723I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…
The world doesn’t need to be one of two extremes, either filtered everything or say whatever you want.
Words have consequences, and while you are free to say whatever, others are free to react to it too. You don’t get a free pass for saying ridiculous things just because free speech | difficulties communicating | you’ve done great things or whatever.
I don’t want a world where everything is filtered but I do want people to think about the impact of what they say before they say it.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#724RMS was defending his friend who, at the age of 74, is accused of having sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island. There is not a defense for what RMS was writing or how he was trying to defend Minsky. The prevalence of comments trying to turn this against "SJW"s or whatever "other" they can because they're a fan of RMS is disturbing. This isn't us vs. them. This is a man who said something wildl…
He disagreed with the wording "assault" which he felt was ambiguous. He would almost certainly have been fine with the wording "had sex with a 17 year old girl on a billionaire's private island". I'm sure a number of other wordings that call into question said girl's consent, the legal status of said girl on said private island with regards to sex, and so on would have been fine as well.
That is what “defending” means: he took objection to what Minsky allegedly did being accurately characterised as assault and a crime.
Plenty of criminals take objection to their crimes being described as crimes, but “men should be allowed to have sex with underaged girls” is a particularly self-serving and gross position for a man in a position of power over young women to take.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#725Can anyone please provide context on this? Why did RMS feel the need to personally step in and weigh in on the Minsky allegations? Was it indeed just carelessness on his behalf, as many are speculating? Or were his comments part of another conversation inside the FSF that has not been made public?
I've read the email chain that's been circulated but it does not go back far enough. It's the "comments about comments" discussion.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#726Can anyone please provide context on this? Why did RMS feel the need to personally step in and weigh in on the Minsky allegations? Was it indeed just carelessness on his behalf, as many are speculating? Or were his comments part of another conversation inside the FSF that has not been made public? I've read the email chain that's been circulated but it does not go back far enough. It's the "comments about comments" d…
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci...
actual source email thread embedded at the bottom of the vice article
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#727People seem to be saying a variety of things about RMS: He's a genius, so let him be. He doesn't understand interpersonal communication. He didn't say the things people thought he said. People are too quick to judge. And so forth. I was there, about 20 years ago, when he sent e-mail urging all free-software advocates to protest a bill under consideration in the US Congress. I asked him if he had read the bill. "No,"…
I'm very glad to read this here. I'm sorry it's so far down the page.
RMS achieved a sort of secular saintly status early on, and as a result has been excused from developing any sort of interpersonal skills or, apparently, human decency for most of his adult life. Now we say he identifies as autistic, like this excuses it, but in the absence of an actual diagnosis (and maybe even WITH one), it feels like a cop out.
It's well past time to accept that rms may well have damaged the FOSS movement with his behavior as much as he's helped it in recent years.
The free & open software world can do better. It deserves better. We ought to demand it. Moving on from rms is a great first step.
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#728I'm so relieved to find that at least on hacker news people can still evaluate this situation with reason. Out there it's a witch hunt and Stallman is now a witch. RMS is a great man but sadly has difficulties communicating with the wider world. This has been true of many great minds throughout history. It's sad to see it happen to one of my own heroes but I believe history will do him justice if we continue to fight…
For what it's worth, lots of us have been trying to have him be removed for being a sexist dirtbag for a long time. No one really needed media sensationalism to draw a pattern of behavior unbefitting the leadership of the FSF. That some random people overstated some aspects of his Epstein thoughts isn't really why this happened. It's also a bit ironic you've decided to call it a witch hunt. Witch hunts happened when…
So... sexism in and of itself ought to be a punishable offense?
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#729Nearly the entire world considers 17 legal [1], including most of the United States. To deny there is a room for a conversation about age of consent being arbitrary seems… really strange. [1]: https://philippineslifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/te3FQnP-...
The entire thing is odd. RMS is questioning the morality of the law and the people opposing him are quite literally, unironically, upset because they use the law to derive their morality[0]. More than that, their criticism is based on an intentional clickbait-tier misreading of what Stallman was saying. And after learning this, people are like "oh well, screw him anyway, he's a weirdo." This includes people like Neil…
That seems like a very definitive description on why you are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong. Do you allow any room for interpretation here?
Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns
#730This is actually the best outcome for the FSF. Unwittingly, the FSF might now need to find a leader who isn't a known weirdo/creep who's "genius" people merely tolerate. This might be the best news for FSF fans like me.
Having an uncompromising autist with unbendable principles at the job was the right man at the right job. There is a high chance that FSF will be taken over by some people-pleaser that compromises FSF into oblivion. There aren't that many people out there who would take as strong and opinionated stances.
Even if that were true, putting that much importance on the personality of a single leader can't be healthy long-term for an organization.