Classical music works of the 21st century • Hacker News Board

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#21

Post by analog31 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 12:24 PM UTC

eeronen wrote: post #3

dwd wrote: post #2

What is their criteria for selection? Are they working from the idea of a published piece of music that could be performed by any symphony, quartet, choral group, etc? Or is about what instruments it is for? I'm just not clear on what their definition of "classical" music is.

Classical music as a genre is quite hard to define. Especially if you try to find some clear boundaries of where classical ends and jazz begins. That is the case for basically every genre. Personally I would try to approach it like this: If it needs the particular band/artist to play it live, it's not classical, if it can be played by anyone with the notes and still be considered the same as hearing the original, it'…

I think this raises a good point about separating the composer and performer. It's almost like a symbiosis. If you're a composer, and you want there to be any chance of someone performing your work in a live setting, then you have to stay within certain parameters. If you're a musician, you're looking for interesting material that you can play on your instrument without getting killed.

There are other practical concerns such as being able to hire from a pool of musicians who can all do similar work. So it leads to a large repertoire that is hard to define in a formal sense, but develops similarities out of practical necessity.

There are other examples as well. The string quartet and the "big band" of jazz, where a particular instrumentation and performance setting guarantees a limitless supply of repertoire for the musicians, and a hope of getting performed for the composer or arranger. I play in a "big band."

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#22

Post by Mediterraneo10 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 12:42 PM UTC

antognini wrote: post #10

This is a great list! For anyone who's interested in a few more recommendations: * For my money, John Adams's best composition this century is El Niño ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IUdBLVkOQ ), though Doctor Atomic is also amazing ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUHKHLk_VU ). The former is a nativity oratorio and the latter is an opera about Oppenheimer and the Manhatten Project. On the Transmigration of Sou…

It wasn't Für Alina that marked Arvo Pärt's departure from serialism but rather the Symphony No. 3.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#23

Post by daviddaviddavid » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 12:44 PM UTC

Very surprised not to see Nico Muhly on this list. There are many of his short pieces on youtube. I highly recommend "It Goes Without Saying", "Motion" and "Drones In Large Cycles".

Another interesting musician is the Ukranian pianist Lubomyr Melnyk. The live video of him in Hamburg is wonderfully shot.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#24

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 12:48 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #11

coldtea wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. To pundits, not to the common man, for which it means "mostly artsy stuff done with acoustic instruments by conservatory trained composers and performed and their like". Heck, for the common man even the distinction "classical", "romantic" etc doesn't mean anything, Bach and Mahler is all classical, and even for my brother…

Xenakis and Stockhausen definitely count as contemporary classical. It's actually about lineage. Contemporary classical sells itself on the basis that there's a direct academic - sometimes historical - link to Beethoven, who was the prototypical Genius Composer. Which is why you usually get all the stock tropes - concert halls, serious audiences in seats listening very intently, serious clothes for the players, a ser…

[deleted]

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#25

Post by tannhaeuser » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:06 PM UTC

daviddaviddavid wrote: post #23

Very surprised not to see Nico Muhly on this list. There are many of his short pieces on youtube. I highly recommend "It Goes Without Saying", "Motion" and "Drones In Large Cycles". Another interesting musician is the Ukranian pianist Lubomyr Melnyk. The live video of him in Hamburg is wonderfully shot.

Also from near Hamburg (now Berlin) is pianist/organist Nils Frahm, who featured in Hamburg several times, and also at the proms.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#26

Post by thanatropism » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:55 PM UTC

Without having read the article, as so often is the custom in comment sections, I am UNABLE to prevent myself from recommending the series of documentaries "Leaving home". Specially the first one. They're all on youtube.

"Home" here stands for the familiarity of classical/romantic music ("19th century" but including post-1900 stuff like Rachmaninoff and so on) but also more literally the tonic root of the harmonic system. Episode 1 is very closely about the road to serialism throughout Wagner, Debussy, etc. up until Schönberg's pre-serial and serial works. Then there are episodes about rhythm and folk influences and so on that widen the scope from just serialism.

If you have a piano or keyboard at home I also recommend trying some of these tone rows, verifying when they're "true" tone rows, etc. I sometimes try to improvise with common chord progressions with my left hand and tone rows that start (or end) related to the tonal progression to feel how they forcefully disconnect from attempts to think tonally.

Of course serialism isn't the definition of modern art music, but it's a mind expander.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#27

Post by suchoudh » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

seems like noise to me. How can it be classical if it's not even pleasing to ears?

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#28

Post by em-bee » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

dwd wrote: post #2

What is their criteria for selection? Are they working from the idea of a published piece of music that could be performed by any symphony, quartet, choral group, etc? Or is about what instruments it is for? I'm just not clear on what their definition of "classical" music is.

i once listened to a talk where the speaker argued that classical music per se does not exist.

and i believe he is right. what we think of as classical music is very much defined by how it is played. the choice of instruments etc. many film scores sound like classical music, but they surely aren't. heck even heavy metal sounds like classic if played by a string quartet. and i bet you wouldn't immideately recognize a classical piece if played by a rock band.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#29

Post by sammorrowdrums » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

raptorraver wrote: post #15

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenakis and Stockhausen definitely count as contemporary classical. It's actually about lineage. Contemporary classical sells itself on the basis that there's a direct academic - sometimes historical - link to Beethoven, who was the prototypical Genius Composer. Which is why you usually get all the stock tropes - concert halls, serious audiences in seats listening very intently, serious clothes for the players, a ser…

Former classical music composer here. Your analysis is quite spot on. Some people in classical music scene even call it ”serious music”.

Yeah these labels are fascinating. I studied jazz at a conservatoire and also played in the "classical" Contemporary Music Ensemble which played a lot of this difficult to define art music.

And there was the amusing rift between popular, jazz and classical students in terms of what music was about and later working as a session player of sorts I used to laugh (internally) playing jazz sets with some function bands because they didn't play any "actual jazz" and didn't play it "properly" and yet nobody else would even notice.

It's fun to debate music and genre definition, genre lacking enough nuance to even work effectively for lots of music.

If I recall Soweto Kinch (UK rapper and sax player) had difficulties with record stores putting him in jazz, and ideally he'd wanted to be in urban sections also.

For musicians and composers I think genre definition is more of a necessary evil than something helpful.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#30

Post by telesilla » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:29 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #6

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. It originally only meant music from the Classical Period of 1720 to 1820, then Romantic music after that, and thus everything you describe above ought to be termed contemporary music (and is usually called something like that as a sub-genre). There is a marketing explanation which is often the easiest definition to use, which…

> Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. To pundits, not to the common man, for which it means "mostly artsy stuff done with acoustic instruments by conservatory trained composers and performed and their like". Heck, for the common man even the distinction "classical", "romantic" etc doesn't mean anything, Bach and Mahler is all classical, and even for my brother…

Don't discount the acousmatic and electroacoustic traditions that also lead from western classical forms. A good, wide exposure to the international contemporary classical music scene might be the Gaudeamus festival held each year in the Netherlands.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Muziekweek