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How do managers get stuck? (2017)

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Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#51

Post by aerophilic »

This analysis resonates with my experience. It also (somewhat) correlates with the Peter principal [0], people get promoted to their level of incompetence.

That said, I still remember “the rules” my High School math teacher told me about “Corporate Life”: 1. Be able to do your Boss’s job 2. Make sure you have someone that can do your job 3. Dress/act the part of your boss

1. Is important because the best way to prove you can do the role is to actually do it. If you can “step in” while your boss is elsewhere, it proves your ability.

2. Conversely, if you don’t have anyone that can take over your role, you are “stuck” especially if your role is critical

3. As mentioned in the article, your boss/their management needs to feel like you will be able to represent them appropriately. If they have any doubts, there is no way you will get the opportunity to prove you can.

[0] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#52

Post by Spooky23 »

closeparen wrote: post #50
eitally wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Well, I agree, but with nuance. A promotion for a knowledge worker role is typically a recognition of already having been operating at a higher level than the employee is currently mapped to. This is not the same as promoting someone because you recognize potential, but those two concepts do usually coexist.

This kind of promotion structure basically just launders a manager's intuition through a veil of objectivity. The committee studiously evaluates, with careful argumentation, checks & balances, neutral parties, and appeals, whether the candidate has been doing L + 1 work. But the decision to assign the candidate an L + 1 scope/impact project is made unilaterally by her manager.

It’s never objective. Ever.

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#53

Post by raz32dust »

cosmotic wrote: post #17

This list seems largely biased toward thriving in a highly-political organization and largely biased against Actually Getting Things Done.

Probably true. But then, I think all organizations achieve these characteristics beyond some critical size. Good executive leadership can help somewhat, but politics and difficulty in getting things done (a.k.a. coordination overhead and communication loss) is part of any large org. So these tips are definitely good to know unless you are planning to always be in small companies (< ~100 employees).

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#54

Post by scarejunba »

pdpi wrote: post #46
cutenewt wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like the typical corporate line explaining why someone hasn't gotten a promotion: "A promotion for a knowledge worker role is typically a recognition of already having been operating at a higher level than the employee is currently mapped to."

I appreciate where the cyniscim comes from, but e.g. Facebook is fairly explicit about working this way, and makes it work quite well. First, because the criterion for promotion is precisely “performs at roughly the middle of the pack for the next level over”, so there is an objective(ish) metric for what you should be doing. Second, because performance bonuses are mapped such that your effective pay before and after…

Interesting. So Facebook assumes that some large number of promotions will fall behind previous performance? Probably a valid assumption. But interesting that they'd perform at one level and then degenerate when that's recognized.

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#55

Post by taneq »

aerophilic wrote: post #51

This analysis resonates with my experience. It also (somewhat) correlates with the Peter principal [0], people get promoted to their level of incompetence. That said, I still remember “the rules” my High School math teacher told me about “Corporate Life”: 1. Be able to do your Boss’s job 2. Make sure you have someone that can do your job 3. Dress/act the part of your boss 1. Is important because the best way to prove…

I can see 3) coming across negatively if your boss feels like you’re treading on their toes, which could be career limiting.

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#56

Post by jbverschoor »

aerophilic wrote: post #51

This analysis resonates with my experience. It also (somewhat) correlates with the Peter principal [0], people get promoted to their level of incompetence. That said, I still remember “the rules” my High School math teacher told me about “Corporate Life”: 1. Be able to do your Boss’s job 2. Make sure you have someone that can do your job 3. Dress/act the part of your boss 1. Is important because the best way to prove…

That's some really good advice. Your highschool is worth more than an mba

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#57

Post by pdpi »

scarejunba wrote: post #54
pdpi wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate where the cyniscim comes from, but e.g. Facebook is fairly explicit about working this way, and makes it work quite well. First, because the criterion for promotion is precisely “performs at roughly the middle of the pack for the next level over”, so there is an objective(ish) metric for what you should be doing. Second, because performance bonuses are mapped such that your effective pay before and after…

Interesting. So Facebook assumes that some large number of promotions will fall behind previous performance? Probably a valid assumption. But interesting that they'd perform at one level and then degenerate when that's recognized.

Sorry — when I said “middle of the pack” I meant performing at “meets all” level for the level above.

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#58

Post by DEADBEEFC0FFEE »

aerophilic wrote: post #51

This analysis resonates with my experience. It also (somewhat) correlates with the Peter principal [0], people get promoted to their level of incompetence. That said, I still remember “the rules” my High School math teacher told me about “Corporate Life”: 1. Be able to do your Boss’s job 2. Make sure you have someone that can do your job 3. Dress/act the part of your boss 1. Is important because the best way to prove…

I can relate to a lot of this. I was made redundant yesterday, and in the year that I had I was not effective at managing up or sideways, and many of my resources were allocated to other managers.

In fairness, I was not impressed with my manager. My role was new and he did fuck all to promote it, set objectives, give guidence or make sure there was something meaningful I could deliver. Other manager didn't know what my role was, and circumvented me often using their old relationships. When the restructure came I was easy pickings.

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#59

Post by gondo »

taneq wrote: post #55
aerophilic wrote: post #51

This analysis resonates with my experience. It also (somewhat) correlates with the Peter principal [0], people get promoted to their level of incompetence. That said, I still remember “the rules” my High School math teacher told me about “Corporate Life”: 1. Be able to do your Boss’s job 2. Make sure you have someone that can do your job 3. Dress/act the part of your boss 1. Is important because the best way to prove…

I can see 3) coming across negatively if your boss feels like you’re treading on their toes, which could be career limiting.

also 2) can be dangerous as there will be someone to replace you and make you redundant

Re: How do managers get stuck? (2017)

#60

Post by taneq »

gondo wrote: post #59
taneq wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see 3) coming across negatively if your boss feels like you’re treading on their toes, which could be career limiting.

also 2) can be dangerous as there will be someone to replace you and make you redundant

True, but if you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted.
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