Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system • Hacker News Board

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#241

Post by dmix » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 1:43 AM UTC

orf wrote: post #227

weinzierl wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that its leadership consists entirely of charlatans is self-evident. Charlatans maybe but the real problem is that they are old men with ballpoint pens who proudly claim that they have "petrol in their blood" . The real tragedy is that most German automotive managers have no clue about the complexity of modern software and I'd bet most of them would answer the question: "What is more complex, the mechanics…

I disagree. A lot of large German auto companies are opening tech hubs here in Lisbon, and from what I’ve heard after speaking to people who work there is that the company is well aware they know absolutely nothing about software and are years behind. So they said screw it, let’s give engineers/hubs freedom to work with whatever technologies they feel would be best, structure themselves and control their output witho…

> So they said screw it, let’s give engineers/hubs freedom to work with whatever technologies they feel would be best, structure themselves and control their output without micromanagement from above.

Probably because this is what any sane CTO would tell them. But it probably doesn't help much when the above management tells them their task is to build an operating system. Without first getting a whole lot of technical people's feedback first.

If they pull it off it could be pretty cool, but considering how much they already have to do to adopt AI, I doubt they'll have the talent or know-how to really pull this off.

An interesting question is would it be easier for a tech group to build a better car company, that now suddenly is all about technology and less about designing and running a cost-competitive manufacturing system, than a car company could build a better tech company. But it's clear there's quite a few laws and other barriers to entry to help out the entrenched car companies who have deep local gov ties.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#242

Post by ncmncm » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 3:02 AM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #206

spanktheuser wrote: post #152

I'm also aware of a project from a major automotive supplier to attempt the same thing. From my understanding it's unlikely to succeed because manufacturers view suppliers as commodity producers of components they find boring like brakes, steering systems, sensors, transmissions, safety systems, fuel pumps, etc. Not as anything resembling a true partner. Not to mention that it would require competitors to collaborate…

> The fact that its leadership consists entirely of charlatans is self-evident. Charlatans maybe but the real problem is that they are old men with ballpoint pens who proudly claim that they have "petrol in their blood" . The real tragedy is that most German automotive managers have no clue about the complexity of modern software and I'd bet most of them would answer the question: "What is more complex, the mechanics…

Ask them which have had more serious engineering attention, and they would say, "Mechanics, of course!"

And they would be right. Cars would be bursting into flames around every corner if they were built like software is today.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#243

Post by hwj » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 4:19 AM UTC

I wonder what language this new OS will be writtin in. C?

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#244

Post by boznz » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:27 AM UTC

PorterDuff wrote: post #173

alexis_fr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same was probably said 15 years ago about the computerization of the car engine and their rapid deprecation. Did the average lifespan of a car decrease since then? How ridiculous is it to drive a 4WD into the desert, full of electronics that can’t be repaired and where a single chip can cost 300$ and has to be shipped from mainland America... So yep, with car computerization they reduced the lifespan from 30 to 1…

"where a single chip can cost 300$ and has to be shipped from mainland America..." that assumes that the failed part is even available. I'd sure be irritated to have the controller board for a Cadillac XLR convertible top fail and have to shop junk yards, no doubt the wrecking yards are hip to small things of value that they can store on a shelf somewhere. To be fair, I know more than one purchasing guy, usually in b…

Unfortunately there are very few car electronic controllers made in the last 20 years where you can replace modules without re-coding them... a $2 part from the scrap yard is useless without the manufactures re-coding software and a couple of hours at the dealership. Unless you're rich I doubt there will be any "classics" from 1990 onwards you can maintain yourself.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#245

Post by manceraio » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

favorited wrote: post #239

clouddrover wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> VW is at stage 5. No. Volkswagen is at the stage that four years after deciding to bet the company on going electric, deliveries of their new EVs based on their new EV platforms will start next year. Their new software plan goes hand in hand with their EV push. Volkswagen is going to be the world's biggest producer of EVs because they're spending the most money to be it and they have the scale to execute it: https:…

Meanwhile there's lots of their old EV platform cars in the Bay Area. I see e-Golfs everywhere (not as many Audi e-trons though).

Both cars share the same platform/components.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#246

Post by solarkraft » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 7:51 AM UTC

clouddrover wrote: post #8

LeonM wrote: post #6

I think this is a result of automotive technical progress slowing down. And I don't mean that in a bad way. For the past 100 years, we have been developing better and better cars, with both breakthroughs and incremental improvements in the drivetrain, safety, comfort, reliability, etc. Now though, cars are consolidating. Most car companies only have a handful of 'platforms' on which they build various models. For exa…

> Their electric drivetrain is at point where there is more for them to gain in software than improvement of the hardware. Tesla is working on a new drivetrain for the Model S, Model X, and the Roadster 2: https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/11/elon-musk-promises-to-take...

Archive link: http://archive.is/qc7Gi

Consider not linking to TechCrunch directly, because they make it virtually impossible to opt out of data collection.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#247

Post by pjmlp » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 8:12 AM UTC

iforgotpassword wrote: post #188

magduf wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That said, how many times have we seen this story in other industries? This is a great post, but it could really use a list of actual examples from other industries.

Not other industry, but Nokia. And Blackberry. IBM is an example where the quick panic solution (original IBM PC) surprisingly was quite successful for a while but also bit them in the ass in the end (modularity and exclusive use of off the shelf parts).

PCs would have looked much different had Compaq not been so lucky with their reverse engineering attempt, hence that whole failed PS/2 MCA recovery attempt.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#248

Post by C1sc0cat » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 10:43 AM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #67

C1sc0cat wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just variants though the British Leyland O series dated back to well before ww2 and lasted into the 80's if not the 90's

Which, as mentioned, was retrofitted with overhead cams, fuel injection, etc, decades after the WWII era.

We are talking about the British car industry here, BL is what the the company that made the Mini couldn't work out what profit they where making on the dam thing.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#249

Post by kozak » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

codeulike wrote: post #214

kozak wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As first it's only for the infotainment system. And the rear view camera is already a part it. And then at some point the manufacturer lets you adjust your adaptive cruise control through it. Then more and more critical things are integrated into what used to be "infotainment", until very soon the entire car can't run without the screen.

I think on most cars the infotainment systems runs on a separate computer that is connected to the drive computer via a bus. With a bit of commonsense design it should be fairly simple to have a car thats still useable without the infotainment computer.

It indeed is fairly simple, but the manufacturer has no incentives to do that.

Re: Volkswagen’s plan to create a new car operating system

#250

Post by magduf » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:32 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #247

iforgotpassword wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not other industry, but Nokia. And Blackberry. IBM is an example where the quick panic solution (original IBM PC) surprisingly was quite successful for a while but also bit them in the ass in the end (modularity and exclusive use of off the shelf parts).

PCs would have looked much different had Compaq not been so lucky with their reverse engineering attempt, hence that whole failed PS/2 MCA recovery attempt.

The MCA bus fiasco was hilarious. Basically, IBM decided it wanted to retake control of the PC and get everyone to abandon the clones, so they came up with the PS/2 and its proprietary MCA bus, and they really thought everyone would suddenly abandon the clones and their open architecture and buy proprietary IBM PS/2 machines that were incompatible with everything. They didn't seem to understand at all that now the cat was out of the bag, they couldn't put it back in. It'd be interesting to see an interview of the idiot executives that hatched up that doomed scheme.