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Classical music works of the 21st century

theguardian.com

11–20 of 37 posts

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#11
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. It originally only meant music from the Classical Period of 1720 to 1820, then Romantic music after that, and thus everything you describe above ought to be termed contemporary music (and is usually called something like that as a sub-genre). There is a marketing explanation which is often the easiest definition to use, which…

> Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. To pundits, not to the common man, for which it means "mostly artsy stuff done with acoustic instruments by conservatory trained composers and performed and their like". Heck, for the common man even the distinction "classical", "romantic" etc doesn't mean anything, Bach and Mahler is all classical, and even for my brother…

Xenakis and Stockhausen definitely count as contemporary classical.

It's actually about lineage. Contemporary classical sells itself on the basis that there's a direct academic - sometimes historical - link to Beethoven, who was the prototypical Genius Composer.

Which is why you usually get all the stock tropes - concert halls, serious audiences in seats listening very intently, serious clothes for the players, a serious conductor at the front, clapping at the end only, definitely no cheering or dancing - that also apply to traditional classical music concerts.

It's also about intellectual content. Pop doesn't usually try to justify itself intellectually. Contemporary classical does nothing but. Which is why it's a long series of "isms" of various kinds, all making more or less convincing claims about their own immense cultural importance.

You don't get points for writing interesting music, you get points for creating a new "ism" - preferably an "important" one - and then writing music around it.

The committed audience is actually tiny - five figures globally, if that - so "important" is debatable.

Even so - the idea that contemporary classical is "important", with the implication that other music isn't, is probably the key to the genre.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#13
post #2

What is their criteria for selection? Are they working from the idea of a published piece of music that could be performed by any symphony, quartet, choral group, etc? Or is about what instruments it is for? I'm just not clear on what their definition of "classical" music is.

Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. It originally only meant music from the Classical Period of 1720 to 1820, then Romantic music after that, and thus everything you describe above ought to be termed contemporary music (and is usually called something like that as a sub-genre). There is a marketing explanation which is often the easiest definition to use, which…

You are right, but you're nit-picking a bit, I think, given the widespread popular usage of the term as a descriptor for orchestral and chamber musics.

When I was at music school we called it Western Art Music, which I think is a more appropriate term.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#14

This is a great list! For anyone who's interested in a few more recommendations: * For my money, John Adams's best composition this century is El Niño ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IUdBLVkOQ ), though Doctor Atomic is also amazing ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUHKHLk_VU ). The former is a nativity oratorio and the latter is an opera about Oppenheimer and the Manhatten Project. On the Transmigration of Sou…

Ben Johnston's compositions scratch my microtonal itch

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#15
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. To pundits, not to the common man, for which it means "mostly artsy stuff done with acoustic instruments by conservatory trained composers and performed and their like". Heck, for the common man even the distinction "classical", "romantic" etc doesn't mean anything, Bach and Mahler is all classical, and even for my brother…

Xenakis and Stockhausen definitely count as contemporary classical. It's actually about lineage. Contemporary classical sells itself on the basis that there's a direct academic - sometimes historical - link to Beethoven, who was the prototypical Genius Composer. Which is why you usually get all the stock tropes - concert halls, serious audiences in seats listening very intently, serious clothes for the players, a ser…

Former classical music composer here. Your analysis is quite spot on. Some people in classical music scene even call it ”serious music”.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#16

This is a great list! For anyone who's interested in a few more recommendations: * For my money, John Adams's best composition this century is El Niño ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IUdBLVkOQ ), though Doctor Atomic is also amazing ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUHKHLk_VU ). The former is a nativity oratorio and the latter is an opera about Oppenheimer and the Manhatten Project. On the Transmigration of Sou…

I'm enjoying Michael Harrison's Revelation very much so far; thanks for the tip-off. By the way, the fifths in just intonation are a 3:2 ratio, not 2:1.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#17
post #2

What is their criteria for selection? Are they working from the idea of a published piece of music that could be performed by any symphony, quartet, choral group, etc? Or is about what instruments it is for? I'm just not clear on what their definition of "classical" music is.

Your confusion is completely right. The genre classical has an almost insanely wide meaning. It originally only meant music from the Classical Period of 1720 to 1820, then Romantic music after that, and thus everything you describe above ought to be termed contemporary music (and is usually called something like that as a sub-genre). There is a marketing explanation which is often the easiest definition to use, which…

The same is true of most genres of music that were really popular during a specific time period. Punk rock arguably was constrained to the late 70s, but you can still find artists who are arguably punk rock.

Genres are a fuzzy classification and time periods are not really the best way to nail down a genre. I guess it sort of works to identify the start of a genre (if you ignore a couple of outliers like Gesualdo who was doing Chromaticism waaaay back in the Renaissance period) since artists copy each other (and copy general trends), and technology / theory can also be a component.

I guess you can tentatively identify a beginning of an artistic movement. But an artistic movement only really dies when no-one cares about it, at which point no-one really cares when it finished.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#19
post #16

This is a great list! For anyone who's interested in a few more recommendations: * For my money, John Adams's best composition this century is El Niño ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2IUdBLVkOQ ), though Doctor Atomic is also amazing ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlUHKHLk_VU ). The former is a nativity oratorio and the latter is an opera about Oppenheimer and the Manhatten Project. On the Transmigration of Sou…

I'm enjoying Michael Harrison's Revelation very much so far; thanks for the tip-off. By the way, the fifths in just intonation are a 3:2 ratio, not 2:1.

Oh shoot, good catch! Yeah, 2:1 is just an octave, of course.

Re: Classical music works of the 21st century

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenakis and Stockhausen definitely count as contemporary classical. It's actually about lineage. Contemporary classical sells itself on the basis that there's a direct academic - sometimes historical - link to Beethoven, who was the prototypical Genius Composer. Which is why you usually get all the stock tropes - concert halls, serious audiences in seats listening very intently, serious clothes for the players, a ser…

Former classical music composer here. Your analysis is quite spot on. Some people in classical music scene even call it ”serious music”.

Amusingly, jazz people call it "legit" music.
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