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Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

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Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#361

Post by CapricornNoble »

zerr wrote: post #329
CapricornNoble wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm slightly confused regarding your position, are you seeking open borders, or solely the elimination of birthright citizenship? I think there's enough responses in the thread regarding open borders that I won't belabor that point again. To the question of birthright citizenship, I'd probably be ok with eliminating it if we replaced it with service-based citizenship a la Starship Troopers (to include volunteering in…

There are many angles/perspectives. Lets consider two categories for whom it is declared that we need them or they are allowed to enter: high-skilled workforce and refugees. We all know (here at HN) about the huge bureaucracy and obstacles when it comes to work permits. As for the refugees - everyone declares that they are allowed to enter, but in order to qualify for such status they need to be [almost] drown in the…

So....all of the problems you've mentioned, and they ARE legitimate issues....can be resolved via means other than eliminating birthright citizenship, or adopting open borders. So can we agree to attempt implementing other measures and policies first before jumping to a drastic and likely highly-disruptive policy shift?

>>>but in order to qualify for such status they need to be [almost] drown in the sea or [almost] killed at the border.

There's not much we can do about natural geography. I'm not sure what alternative course of action is suggested in the case of, say, Cuban or Haitian refugees attempting access by boat. Secondly, no one is "almost killing" refugees that show up at designated legal points of entry to the country. Finally, anyone other than Mexican citizens attempting to seek asylum/refugee status by crossing the US-Mexico border is probably in error (I wouldn't go so far as to say "not acting in good faith").

Consider this from: [1] "Once refugees or asylum seekers have found a safe place and protection of a state or territory outside their territory of origin they are discouraged from leaving again and seeking protection in another country."

In other words, Hondurans/Guatamalans/etc... should not be transiting Mexico to seek refugee status in the US to begin with.[2]

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee#Restriction_of_onward_...

[2]https://www.unhcr.org/3c064aab4.html

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#362

Post by javagram »

anigbrowl wrote: post #243
javagram wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People illegally present in the US cannot work legally. That means they work under the table and are subject to all sorts of abuse, and their presence promotes gray market/black market economies. While I think it is unfair to deport people who have been here for decades and giving them amnesty (again, like we did in the 1980s) is a reasonable solution especially for those who were kids when they came here, I don’t ha…

So let people have work permits as long as they don't commit serious crimes and the illegal work problem goes away. There is no necessity for the control freakery that has driven much immigration policy in recent years.

That’s open borders and it isn’t a popular policy with the country, which is why it hasn’t happened. (I don’t think any first world country has such a policy, the USA is hardly alone here)

People are worried that a dramatic rise in immigrants willing to work for less (since it’s still better off than their home countries) would undercut their jobs by affecting the supply/demand relationship of the labor market.

I’m not sure unrestricted immigration could work but I think we could increase the numbers of visas we do give out by some number less than unlimited.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#363

Post by mistermann »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #350
mistermann wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of downvoting on legitimate questions is starting to get a bit out of hand around here. If people can't answer a mild challenge to their claim, should they be making it in the first place?

I didn't downvote you (you can't, AFAICT, downvote a reply to your own message). Having said that: I did start to compose a reply to you last night, but decided against it for two reasons: 1. The process by which drugs are generally smuggled into the US from Mexico has been covered by a multitude of news sources for decades. The vast majority are smuggled through border checkpoints; a small minority are smuggled arou…

Good questions, I shall reply :)

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#364

Post by lliamander »

tomhoward wrote: post #357
CapricornNoble wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>I've never knowingly been tested by any body heat sensor at an airport or other border crossing, and I've travelled plenty in Asia, USA, Europe, and in/out of my home country of Australia. I guess they are easy to miss, they just look like camcorders on tripods, usually, but the checkpoints themselves and their purpose are usually clearly marked. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-04-27/a-thermal-camera-syst... http…

Both those links refer to specific infection outbreaks, that health authorities feared (rightly or wrongly) may escalate into global pandemics. Both were contained due mostly to medical systems implementing standard procedures for controlling outbreaks. Checking some people at some border crossings may have helped somewhat, but it was only one part of a much broader response. The point stands; no recent, serious infe…

> It's just not a serious part of the discussion, and it is likely invoked as an attempt to cast certain classes of foreigners as unclean and trigger susceptible people's disgust response.

The CDC literally has policies about who can be admitted to the U.S. as an immigrant or refugee based on their health status[1], including whether or not they are carrying a communicable disease (such as TB).

This unsubstantiated inference about other people's intentions is misguided at best, and disingenuous at worst.

[1]https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/exams/medical-exa...

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#365

Post by nateburke »

carapace wrote: post #31
consumer451 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of a tangent, but how is the US/Mexico border a "defense" issue? The Mexican military is not planning an invasion. I am unaware of any Latin American terrorist groups threatening the USA. I am not trying to be pedantic here, but words are important. If the US/Mexico border is a defense issue, then it should be entirely militarized? Andruil would be most accurately described as a surveillance company, would it n…

They don't talk about it but the military has to consider forcibly closing the border to prevent invasion after a mass ecological/economic disaster. https://spaswell.wordpress.com/2016/11/18/dr-gwynne-dyer-geo... It's long, so here's the relevant part quoted at length: > There’s an anthropologist friend of mine, a guy called Steve LeBlanc–he runs the Peabody Museum in Harvard–who wrote a book once called “Constant Ba…

Admitting and training 5M new American people per year could be precisely the workforce solution the US needs in order to solve the looming long term care crisis we will have on our hands when the baby boomers transition from elderly to frail.

What if the first stop across the border wasn't a detention center but rather a LTC training facility?

Yes there is the language problem, but how many jobs in LTC require fluency?

Yes there is the fact that some places where the LTC crisis is hitting hard like New England and the rust belt are far away from the border, but perhaps families are desperate/poor enough to relocate? Aren't some retiring near the border for cost reasons (tax) already?

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#366

Post by erikpukinskis »

CapricornNoble wrote: post #318
erikpukinskis wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not, the most basic responsibility of national defense is stopping invading armies. Or maybe it’s dealing with the other nuclear powers. Stopping people coming over the border to be residents is probably not in the top 10 of national defense priorities. Honestly, as a matter of policy I don’t think it’s even something we are trying to do since immigration is so good for GDP, and nothing else really matters as…

>>>No it’s not, the most basic responsibility of national defense is stopping invading armies. And where do you intend to stop the invading armies, if not....at your border? >>>Stopping people coming over the border to be residents is probably not in the top 10 of national defense priorities. Well, let's take a look at the 2018 National Defense Strategy: https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-Nation...…

You would stop invading armies everywhere, at the border, inside the border, in their homeland and the lands of their allies, in the borders of your own allies, anywhere.

Do you imagine border patrol plays a key strategic role in war? What would be an example of that from history?

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#367

Post by elbasti »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #359
elbasti wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. I don't think there's anything in my comment that would suggest that. My comment was explicitly about: inhumane acts done to apprehended migrants and building technology to apprehend more migrants. Those seem very connected.

Does the manufacturer of cars that they provide for the border patrol contribute to the "increase of suffering"? This technology is directly related to apprehending more migrants, in fact those cars are used on the ground to do that exact thing. Some of those cars are used to separate children from families by driving them away. To clarify, my point is if you see such technology as directly related, then cars would a…

Yes. Selling cars to the border patrol is, in this formulation, unethical.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#368

Post by CapricornNoble »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #366
CapricornNoble wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>>No it’s not, the most basic responsibility of national defense is stopping invading armies. And where do you intend to stop the invading armies, if not....at your border? >>>Stopping people coming over the border to be residents is probably not in the top 10 of national defense priorities. Well, let's take a look at the 2018 National Defense Strategy: https://dod.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-Nation...…

You would stop invading armies everywhere, at the border, inside the border, in their homeland and the lands of their allies, in the borders of your own allies, anywhere. Do you imagine border patrol plays a key strategic role in war? What would be an example of that from history?

>>>You would stop invading armies everywhere, at the border, inside the border, in their homeland and the lands of their allies, in the borders of your own allies, anywhere.

"Defend everywhere" makes for a very poor Commander's Intent or Mission Statement. If you are defending "inside the border"...you've already failed at stopping your adversary AT the border. It also violates almost half of the Principles of War (mass, objective, economy of force, simplicity). Reference Appendix B of [6].

>>>Do you imagine border patrol plays a key strategic role in war? What would be an example of that from history?

From[1]: "Pakistani patrols began patrolling in territory controlled by India in January 1965, which was followed by attacks by both countries on each other's posts on 8 April 1965.[44][45] Initially involving border police from both nations, the disputed area soon witnessed intermittent skirmishes between the countries' armed forces."

Re: [2][3]These Soviet-Japanese border conflicts would have 2nd and 3rd order effects on military doctrine, development, and strategic focus (the Japanese stopped poking the Bear and focused on China). The Soviets gained some confidence in their operational doctrine and gained confidence fighting the Japanese (who they last fought against, and lost to, in the 1904-1905 Russo-Japanese War).

Reference [4] describes how the Soviets managed border security during their Afghanistan war.

Reference [5] has a short section on "Border Security in Contemporary Counterinsurgency" to summarize border control issues from Vietnam to Afghanistan to Iraq. It particularly points out the significant political ramifications of cross-border insurgents and counter-insurgency operations.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lake_Khasan

[3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

[4]https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13518046.2015.10...

[5]https://apps.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA503298

[6]https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-L...

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#369

Post by dsalso »

UncleMeat wrote: post #339
dsalso wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And open borders hurt everyone

That's why we have closed borders between us states, right?

No they do not have closed borders.

Btw, since you are so pro open national borders. I am a Mexican based in Mexico City, I know a lot of people who would like to live in the US, would you be interested in sponsoring them, maybe hosting them at your place? That way they wouldn't have to risk their lives trying to just get to the US border Feel free to reach out.

Re: Anduril, a startup from Oculus founder Palmer Luckey, now valued at $1B

#370

Post by LegitShady »

homonculus1 wrote: post #331
LegitShady wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think open borders and ongoing orderly nationare an option you're wrong. Whoever walks into your nation will shape it. Your children's voices don't matter. There are far more children outside the country than in it and democracy can't work with open borders.

I think for most any given policy you could find some constellation of trade-offs and counterbalances that would make it work. Maybe for a certain value of "work" because in many cases those trade-offs would have to violate values or principles that we consider more important. I think that a nation could in theory have open borders and prosper, but the trade-offs would have to be such that only like-minded people who…

>I think that a nation could in theory have open borders and prosper, but the trade-offs would have to be such that only like-minded people who can fit in and succeed would have an incentive to immigrate.

You have no control over who comes in when you build a system that requires like minded people.

It makes it just as easy for people completely against those like minds to come in, in any number, and vote with equal voice.

If you have a successful nation/economy, people will want to come whether like minded or not.

>This means that their children's voices would be saying the same thing as your children's, but there would be e.g. no help for the poor since that would attract enough free riders to kill the goose.

The Cartels would take over the the southern united states in a hurry. It would turn the "border" into a series of criminal empires even beyond what exists now. Asian and other gangs would experience massive surges as they import members from overseas.

Insane policies that have no connection to reality and assume there are no bad people.

>no help for the poor since that would attract enough free riders to kill the goose.

while I agree that you cannot incentivize "free riders", I don't think your system is viable with open borders either way.

You will be conquered and you will have no national unity because everyone will bring with them their own ideals and concepts, regardless of your belief that only people who agree with you will come.

And it will be a massive betrayal of your citizens to give away their future to anyone who walks in, all in a massive self sabotaging effort of malignant empathy.

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