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Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

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Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#41

Post by PorterDuff »

learc83 wrote: post #36
everythingswan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point but I think the fact that grocery stores sell private label goods is the counter-point. Grocery stores re-package goods like rice, beans, paper towels, etc. to compete with their vendors all the time. We call them supermarkets, right? A grocery store is simply a more organized open market. Which is very comparable to Amazon. I think the problem is that they present the results on good faith that "the…

>Grocery stores re-package goods like rice, beans, paper towels, etc. to compete with their vendors all the time. That was the original point I was arguing against. My point is that grocery store is not a good analogy because Amazon is not the same as a retail store, they are a combination store and marketplace.

I would argue that a grocery store is a combination store and marketplace in that case. Stores have plenty of in-house brands, they also have racks of goods that are stocked and sold by third parties wherein they get a cut.

To be fair, I think I would be more comfortable comparing Amazon to Sears in it's heyday.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#42

Post by tracer4201 »

learc83 wrote: post #25
whoisjuan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really? I don't see how this comparison works at all. Amazon gives you distribution, traffic, logistics, etc, with zero risk. They just take a fee if you sell. The only upfront cost is if you pay the premium FBA and that's still a like a 40 bucks per month fee. I'm not trying to defend Amazon, but I don't think that comparison makes sense.

It's obviously not a perfect metaphor, but neither is a grocery store. >Amazon gives you distribution, traffic, logistics, etc, with zero risk. Not everyone uses the distribution, and a mall or flea market also provides traffic to tenants.

At a mall you pay a fixed cost in terms of rent, regardless of sales. Amazon doesn’t charge you to simply list your product, right? If vendors were being charged a fee just for the listing itself without any sales, your argument would be more valid.

If amazon does charge a fee for simply listing a product, tell us. They don’t as far as I know.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#43

Post by graeme »

learc83 wrote: post #8
monitron wrote: post #6

I would compare this to a supermarket allocating shelf space to maximize its profits, either by placing its own brands front and center or by featuring brands that have made a deal for prime shelf placement. I don't see this as scandalous or even new. Coincidentally, Amazon brand products are usually pretty good in my experience, so this might not be a terrible outcome for users who have already decided to come shop…

Grocery stores don't operate as a "marketplace" though. Grocery stores curate their offerings, vet vendors, deal with returns etc... Amazon is more like shopping mall that decides to start operating their own stores and competing with their tenants.

>Grocery stores curate their offerings, vet vendors, deal with returns

Amazon does all of these things. They have unlimited shelf space, which reduces constraints.

But vendors can have amazon handle returns, they can be kicked off the platform, and amazon decided how to present vendors.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#44

Post by mortivore »

philipodonnell wrote: post #40
everythingswan wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point but I think the fact that grocery stores sell private label goods is the counter-point. Grocery stores re-package goods like rice, beans, paper towels, etc. to compete with their vendors all the time. We call them supermarkets, right? A grocery store is simply a more organized open market. Which is very comparable to Amazon. I think the problem is that they present the results on good faith that "the…

> A grocery store is simply a more organized open market. That’s not true though right? Don’t grocery stores buy the products that are on their shelves and they are reselling them? That’s fundamentally different from a marketplace.

Some grocery stores, like Kroger, sell their own branded products in their stores.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#45

Post by ryanmcbride »

monitron wrote: post #6

I would compare this to a supermarket allocating shelf space to maximize its profits, either by placing its own brands front and center or by featuring brands that have made a deal for prime shelf placement. I don't see this as scandalous or even new. Coincidentally, Amazon brand products are usually pretty good in my experience, so this might not be a terrible outcome for users who have already decided to come shop…

EDIT: I didn't explain this well at all because I couldn't find the episode and haven't listened since it came out, I highly suggest someone better than me find the episode because it makes much more sense and has WAY more information than me.

There was a planet money episode about this exact comparison the other day. Basically it comes down to:

When a grocery store puts something on it's shelves, the store itself bought it from the manufacturer. They have already made their money. On Amazon, manufacturers don't make money when the item is listed, they make it only if and when a customer buys the product.

When a grocery store makes its own novel product and puts it on the shelf, it's taking a risk. If they make those products, but they don't sell, they just lost a bunch of money. Or, if their product is a competing one with an existing product, they know that products like that can sell, but now they have to focus on outselling the original product. When Amazon makes its own product, most of the risk has been removed. They pretty much already know it sells well on their platform, and they have enough money that knocking 5 dollars off the price, making it prime recommended, and putting it at the top of the list will cause it to beat the competition 9 times out of 10.

I'm not saying any of this is fair or unfair, because I'm not an economist so I don't believe I have a full understanding of the situation.

I tried to find the exact episode but it seems I can never find them when I need them.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#46

Post by pacala »

tachyonbeam wrote: post #5

It's not surprising that, given this kind of power, they would use it. What's a little unsettling is how little concern they have for people selling on their platform. If they treat their vendors like shit, and compete with them directly, that will incentivise said vendors to look for alternative platforms. You might say "who cares, there is no real competition for Amazon", but competition will come. What is Amazon g…

They are betting that when competition comes, they'll be subject to the same ~greed~ fiduciary duty forces. The market only has room for a handful of megacorps. They'll all highly likely to implement skewed algorithms to promote their own wares. If you don't like it, go build your own [TM].

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#47

Post by ummonk »

PorterDuff wrote: post #41
learc83 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Grocery stores re-package goods like rice, beans, paper towels, etc. to compete with their vendors all the time. That was the original point I was arguing against. My point is that grocery store is not a good analogy because Amazon is not the same as a retail store, they are a combination store and marketplace.

I would argue that a grocery store is a combination store and marketplace in that case. Stores have plenty of in-house brands, they also have racks of goods that are stocked and sold by third parties wherein they get a cut. To be fair, I think I would be more comfortable comparing Amazon to Sears in it's heyday.

What store / grocery store has goods stocked by third parties? (Rather than purchased from the third party by the grocery store)?

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#48

Post by helpPeople »

Pxtl wrote: post #34

Considering how shopping at Amazon now feels like shopping at an electronics bazaar in Singapore with giant bins of random knock-off products of suspicious quality, tweaking the algo to push name-brand options (even if it's their own name-brand) would be a welcome move to me as a buyer. Obviously it's grossly unfair to their vendors, but from a strictly user-centric view it's an improvement. Otherwise, Amazon feels l…

I've seen Amazon prices go up while Walmart Online has been cheaper for household items. On speciality electronics, I don't think anyone would be surprised to know Amazon is more expensive.

It's an ancedote sure, but back in 2012, we shopped only at Amazon. Now they are no longer King.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#49

Post by rrss »

ry_ry wrote: post #37
bsamuels wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to add some supporting information why you feel that way instead of just sharing your opinion and dropping the mic

I think their point is simply that "it's their store" - and to be brutally honest, I agree. Two not-entirely-random examples of similar behaviour: Supermarkets place their own brand merchandise where they feel it'll sell best. Undeniably good business, and certainly no reason for concern. Perhaps more questionably, but bare with me - Google place AMP content, which is to say content they have made their product by me…

Note the European Commission has fined Google billions for giving Google Shopping preferential placement in search results.

Re: Amazon Changed Search Algorithm in Ways That Boost Its Own Products

#50

Post by softwaredoug »

As someone who works in search this is unsurprising, and happens all the time. Search is a two sided sales exercise both to show you good products and also to products that make the e-commerce business money. Search is the e-commerce businesses sales person - not a neutral broker. You don’t expect the blue shirt at Best Buy to be entirely neutral do you?

It’s actually a pretty understudied microeconomics case

https://opensourceconnections.com/blog/2017/07/04/optimizing...

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