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Mapping Ancient Rome

theamericanconservative.com

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Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#11

Post by TomMarius »

cco wrote: post #8
TomMarius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't conservatism basically forcing people to not progress? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to conservatism than "do not change"?

>Isn't progressivism basically forcing people to change? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to progressivism than "you must change"? Does the above re-wording make the problem with your characterization more obvious? I hope that it is obvious that both "progressive" and "conservative" philosophies are qualified by necessary and persuasive reasons to do on…

The thing is, I am not a progressive in your understanding and by English sense of the word and I fully agree with your rewordization. In my country, progressives are comparable to US libertarians.

What you list as positive traits seem to be just rational politics. That's how it's known in my country, not as something conservative or else. So is that conservatism, being rational and pragmatic instead of... Irrational as progressives? Or is the key message of conservatism something else? The word conservative suggest a stop of change. I thought the message of conservatism would be more related to that.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#12

Post by thejohnconway »

TomMarius wrote: post #7
jriot wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being a conservative consider being an extremist from your viewpoint?

Isn't conservatism basically forcing people to not progress? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to conservatism than "do not change"?

Totalitarian fascism and communism were both aggressively branded as progressive waves of the future in the first part of the 20th century. Change is often bad, and it is good to have level-headed conservatives resisting it.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#13

Post by jriot »

TomMarius wrote: post #7
jriot wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being a conservative consider being an extremist from your viewpoint?

Isn't conservatism basically forcing people to not progress? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to conservatism than "do not change"?

We are quick to see the negative, but conservatism also maintains keeping traditions and culture. I live in the Acadian region and we continue our traditions as they preserve our culture.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#14

Post by astine »

TomMarius wrote: post #11
cco wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Isn't progressivism basically forcing people to change? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to progressivism than "you must change"? Does the above re-wording make the problem with your characterization more obvious? I hope that it is obvious that both "progressive" and "conservative" philosophies are qualified by necessary and persuasive reasons to do on…

The thing is, I am not a progressive in your understanding and by English sense of the word and I fully agree with your rewordization. In my country, progressives are comparable to US libertarians. What you list as positive traits seem to be just rational politics. That's how it's known in my country, not as something conservative or else. So is that conservatism, being rational and pragmatic instead of... Irrational…

"Or is the key message of conservatism something else?"

It depends on the conservative. It's a broad camp. Some people who call themselves 'conservative' are really just super reactionary people who hate any kind of change while others are reasonable people who want to be careful. US politics is highly partisan right now so there is a lot of conflict that has more to do with team or tribal affiliation (republican or democrat) than with actual ideological or philosophical differences.

Traditionally, though, conservatism as a school of thought originates with the writings of Edmund Burke on the French Revolution, where he pointed out, not that social and political change were bad in themselves, but that the Revolution in his opinion, was going too far too fast, breaking with too many traditions, and was thereby sowing the seeds of its own destruction. He argued that because the French Revolutionaries were attempting to replace widely held (in France at the time) principles of political legitimacy with novel principles of the political legitimacy, that politics in France would break down into practical power politics and would result in a military dictatorship. His prediction turned out correct, though people still debate his reasoning.

So, in this sense, conservatism is the idea that traditional political institutions have value because they are traditional political institutions. Change is not inherently bad, but must be undertaken carefully because if you overtly discredit the current institutions you court instability and the new system might not be better.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#15

Post by metabagel »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #4
angry_octet wrote: post #2

This is an interesting review of a more interesting project to create a digital geospatial model of the Rome of recent antiquity. It is mysterious why it has been published on an extremist website. It's like reading a article about the life and times of Goethe in Al Quaeda Monthly .

extremist? Really? And especially to the level of comparing it with a literal terrorist organization. The hard right has its genuinely extremist, white supremacist and nationalist elements but to claim that a conservative affinity makes a site like this into an extremist page is absurdly self-righteous and hypocritical even. Might as well say the same about Huffpo or NPR. No? I never understood how leftist and heavil…

I didn't see the original comment, which has been flagged and apparently deleted by a moderator. I just want to say that the liberal equivalent of The American Conservative is probably something like Jacobin Magazine, not HuffPost or NPR. Basically, a source of opinion and ideas with a political agenda.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#16

Post by TomMarius »

efa wrote: post #9
TomMarius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't conservatism basically forcing people to not progress? Some might see that as a nearly violent act against their freedom. But really, what else is there to conservatism than "do not change"?

>>forcing people to not progress What?

Sorry, I am not native speaker. I meant that they force people (e.g. With laws) to stop making progress.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#17

Post by emteycz »

astine wrote: post #14
TomMarius wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, I am not a progressive in your understanding and by English sense of the word and I fully agree with your rewordization. In my country, progressives are comparable to US libertarians. What you list as positive traits seem to be just rational politics. That's how it's known in my country, not as something conservative or else. So is that conservatism, being rational and pragmatic instead of... Irrational…

"Or is the key message of conservatism something else?" It depends on the conservative. It's a broad camp. Some people who call themselves 'conservative' are really just super reactionary people who hate any kind of change while others are reasonable people who want to be careful. US politics is highly partisan right now so there is a lot of conflict that has more to do with team or tribal affiliation (republican or…

I see. My country is 30 years old, post communist, so this is a thought I never had. Thank you.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#18

Post by SamBam »

I don't know whether I'm reading into this with a bias given that it's published in The American Conservative, but the conclusion of the article definitely reads as an homage to when "Western Civilization" was nice and homogeneous, and everyone could trace its lineage back to Rome.

> The importance of classical Rome to the conscious and unconscious customs of later Western urbanism cannot be overstated. Today, as cultures cross-pollinate, and as technologies topple timeless ways of living, it is an open question whether the familiarity of Rome’s ancient forms will be felt much by those who live in the future, beyond the next horizon. [ ... ] Perhaps this time—our time—is really the end of the ancient world.

I read this as "all of the 'other' people who come into the West won't share this unifying history of the city that was the pinnacle of civilization."

Highly ironic that the article in the carousel directly above this one was "Why Identity Politics Kills Democracy."

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#19

Post by keepspeechfree »

shadowprofile77 wrote: post #4
angry_octet wrote: post #2

This is an interesting review of a more interesting project to create a digital geospatial model of the Rome of recent antiquity. It is mysterious why it has been published on an extremist website. It's like reading a article about the life and times of Goethe in Al Quaeda Monthly .

extremist? Really? And especially to the level of comparing it with a literal terrorist organization. The hard right has its genuinely extremist, white supremacist and nationalist elements but to claim that a conservative affinity makes a site like this into an extremist page is absurdly self-righteous and hypocritical even. Might as well say the same about Huffpo or NPR. No? I never understood how leftist and heavil…

throwaway, because well see below.

y, I find extremely troubling that:

Groups can so easily attack and label other groups as extreme when they hold similar views toward the other end of the spectrum.

Accuse others of being non-accepting of their ideas while at the same time not being accepting of the other groups ideas and beliefs. And willing to destroy the other sides careers and businesses over it.

People should always be able to have their own beliefs and speak out and question things without fear of persecution.

Being accepting and open to ideas and discussion is the way we should debate and express our ideas/opinions.

If you are having to spread and enforce your ideas through fear you are probably on the wrong side.

Re: Mapping Ancient Rome

#20

Post by astine »

metabagel wrote: post #15
shadowprofile77 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

extremist? Really? And especially to the level of comparing it with a literal terrorist organization. The hard right has its genuinely extremist, white supremacist and nationalist elements but to claim that a conservative affinity makes a site like this into an extremist page is absurdly self-righteous and hypocritical even. Might as well say the same about Huffpo or NPR. No? I never understood how leftist and heavil…

I didn't see the original comment, which has been flagged and apparently deleted by a moderator. I just want to say that the liberal equivalent of The American Conservative is probably something like Jacobin Magazine, not HuffPost or NPR. Basically, a source of opinion and ideas with a political agenda.

If you turn on "showdead" you'll be able to see the original comment. I don't think there was anything worth flagging about it; the commenter just gave away his political bias using the the word 'extremist' rather than a more neutral term.

"Basically, a source of opinion and ideas with a political agenda."

This is exactly right, I think.

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