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E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

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Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#21

Post by JackFaker »

avar wrote: post #11
tadzik_ wrote: post #8

> There’s a tension in e-book pricing generally between consumer expectations that a digital file will be less expensive than a physical copy and the reality that very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format There's more to this than the cost of making a book. As a consumer, a physical thing inherently has more value than a digital one because it keeps the value after I buy it. I can len…

As a consumer, the digital e-book is inherently more valuable than a physical book. I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. There's all sorts of other value, like search functions, not having to fill my house or storage box with books, and avoid…

Are you arguing that convenience function enabled by the digital format is more valuable than ownership of a physical good?

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#22

Post by mellosouls »

heinrichhartman wrote: post #18
avar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, the digital e-book is inherently more valuable than a physical book. I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. There's all sorts of other value, like search functions, not having to fill my house or storage box with books, and avoid…

I feel exactly the opposite. I hate reading stuff on screens. - It hurts my eyes when I do this for hours. - It comes with lots of distractions. - Digital Annotations are a PITA - Zapping through a book works much better in hard-copy If I am supposed to spent 1h+ reading your content. You better make sure I can buy a printed copy.

If you are reading on a proper* e-reader, eyestrain shouldn't be an issue.

*ie classic Kindle with e-ink or similar, not a tablet like iPad/Android equivalent or the annoyingly named Amazon "Kindle" Fire etc.

Not great for tech manuals, admittedly

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#23

Post by diffeomorphism »

helpPeople wrote: post #17
ainiriand wrote: post #2

What is more important, culture or company profits?

New question, what if it's not "company", but individual? Do we not support people who put their resources into a book? Also obligatory false dichotomy.

> Do we not support people who put their resources into a book?

Another false dichotomy. Why does "support" equal banning libraries from buying books for 8 weeks, when anybody else can buy them freely?

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#24

Post by Freak_NL »

tadzik_ wrote: post #8

> There’s a tension in e-book pricing generally between consumer expectations that a digital file will be less expensive than a physical copy and the reality that very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format There's more to this than the cost of making a book. As a consumer, a physical thing inherently has more value than a digital one because it keeps the value after I buy it. I can len…

People seem to instinctively feel that an e-book shouldn't cost as much as a real book. A paperback edition of a book often has multiple owners throughout its — sometimes considerable — lifespan. That's simply part of the deal, and it always has been.

E-books lack the ability to share, sell, and pass it on. That's fine, but the market won't bear nearly the same price as a paper book that can do all those things. An e-book should in all fairness cost perhaps a third or fourth of a paper book — i.e., the price of a paperback edition divided by the average number of readers it tends to have. Not pricing the goods accordingly leads to where we are now: mass piracy of e-books and hardly anyone feeling guilty about it.

I don't read e-books myself (I take delight in my collection of paper books), but as far as I know sharing USB-drives filled with thousands of e-books is common in a lot of circles — with middle-aged people in particular. Compare this with piracy in games, music, and video, which is comparatively rare due to the affordable and easy legal alternatives, and it is hard not to see that the market is simply not offering the best solution.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#26

Post by Fnoord »

avar wrote: post #11
tadzik_ wrote: post #8

> There’s a tension in e-book pricing generally between consumer expectations that a digital file will be less expensive than a physical copy and the reality that very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format There's more to this than the cost of making a book. As a consumer, a physical thing inherently has more value than a digital one because it keeps the value after I buy it. I can len…

As a consumer, the digital e-book is inherently more valuable than a physical book. I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. There's all sorts of other value, like search functions, not having to fill my house or storage box with books, and avoid…

I like both. I'd like to think physical and digital books each have their pros and cons. I try to be pragmatic about the issue.

Thinking back about school I remember the heavy weight of the backpack. That can be more efficient, I thought back then. Same with vacation however I don't want to unlock my ereader for border patrol, as a matter of principle. Not sure if we are at that point already. The point is, each have also privacy implications.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#27

Post by diffeomorphism »

meuk wrote: post #9

> very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format Either that's bullshit, or the costs are entirely artificial. I really, really want "Concrete mathematics" by Donald Knuth. I really, really don't want to pay €80 for it. A good alternative for me would be the e-book, but it isn't any cheaper. I doubt if anyone will buy the ebook for that price while there are free copies available online.

Concrete Mathematics is 672 pages, hardcover for $72 on amazon.

Lord of the Rings is 3 hardcover books, 1214 pages total for $39 dollars.

Considering that you get much more "book" out of the second one, the content seems to be most of the price.

Similarly, if you look at China-only copies of math books, you pay about $10 (IIRC), which gets you admittedly bad quality paper and binding but still makes the publishers money.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#28

Post by cheschire »

johnchristopher wrote: post #19
avar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, the digital e-book is inherently more valuable than a physical book. I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. There's all sorts of other value, like search functions, not having to fill my house or storage box with books, and avoid…

> I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. Isn't that a FOMO argument, though ? As a consumer the advantage of e-books are: ease of organization and ease of buying, no page flipping sounds in bed, ease of transportation. But what I really want ?…

Imagine a ribbed touch sensitive bezel on a regular single-screen e-reader. When you rub your thumb across it, it flips the pages in the reader by a proportional amount.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#29

Post by nirvdrum »

johnchristopher wrote: post #19
avar wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, the digital e-book is inherently more valuable than a physical book. I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. There's all sorts of other value, like search functions, not having to fill my house or storage box with books, and avoid…

> I often re-read or consult books (or chapters) I've read on a whim. If I had to e.g. take my library on vacations to do the same thing I can trivially do on a Kindle I'd need to travel with a minivan full of books. Isn't that a FOMO argument, though ? As a consumer the advantage of e-books are: ease of organization and ease of buying, no page flipping sounds in bed, ease of transportation. But what I really want ?…

A multi-page e-ink book would be nice. I love my Kindle for certain types of reading, but when I read, I like to flip back to previous sections. Search doesn't work because I rarely know verbatim what I'm looking for or the search terms are flooded with answers from the entire book, when I really want it narrowed down to a particular area. With physical books, I just remember roughly how far into the book it was and can jump back there and start searching. I'd love to successfully replicate that with a Kindle.

Re: E-books at local libraries: a fight between publishers and librarians

#30

Post by dgacmu »

meuk wrote: post #9

> very little of the cost of making a book is tied up in the physical format Either that's bullshit, or the costs are entirely artificial. I really, really want "Concrete mathematics" by Donald Knuth. I really, really don't want to pay €80 for it. A good alternative for me would be the e-book, but it isn't any cheaper. I doubt if anyone will buy the ebook for that price while there are free copies available online.

It's entirely dependant upon volume. According to [0], the average US non-fiction book will sell under 3,000 copies in its lifetime. For the proceeds from that to pay the author, editor, and marketing... Well, that's not a lot of copies to amortize those salaries across.

The numbers are obviously very different for a New York times best seller, where physical goods costs will represent a larger fraction of the cost. But most books aren't NYT bestsellers, (even? Particularly?) When they're by Knuth on advanced topics. :)

you could call paying all of the people involved in the process of creating a book artificial, but if we don't, we don't get more books.

[0] https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1394159

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