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Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

caranddriver.com

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Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#131

Post by userbinator »

matt-attack wrote: post #100
Brakenshire wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hm, even LED TVs use something like 30W, don’t think you’d get much out of dimming a tablet sized screen. 50W for 5 hours is 250Wh, which is a mile extra range. That’s worth having.

What’s funny is all of these trade offs have always applied to ICE cars as well, but for some reason no one cares. Blasting your radio shortens your range even in a gas vehicle. Running your wipers shortens your range even in a gas car.

The range of an ICE car is not as big of a concern as with EVs, giving that they already have a substantial range, "recharging" is quick, and fuels are very energy-dense.

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#132

Post by userbinator »

adamkittelson wrote: post #123
paganel wrote: post #41

Why replace a simple but essential thing that works (i.e. current wipers) with a more complicated one that it will have lots of additional ways to fail?

Speaking of... on the model 3 rather than using standard rain sensors for the automatic wipers they got cute and used the autopilot camera and it’s fucking awful. I constantly have to screw with the wiper settings when it’s raining (which are on the touch screen because of course they are) because the auto setting is so bad. I love the car overall but this design decision was a mistake.

which are on the touch screen because of course they are

I've never driven one, but a bit of research indicates that it has a right control stalk but Tesla didn't make it control the wipers. Instead, the button on the left stalk will wipe once. The fact that videos like this exist shows just how horrible the UI is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Rr_XzzJ6gc

I'm surprised Tesla could do this, because there are laws that dictate things like what the steering wheel should do, and the order of the pedals and transmission shift pattern (perhaps not so applicable to an EV.)

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#134

Post by userbinator »

robomartin wrote: post #99

Can't think of anything more wasteful than using 50 Neodymium magnets to do a job that could be done with two or three "standard" magnets or, Samarium Cobalt if absolutely necessary. It's grotesque, really, if you start thinking about natural resource utilization. Imagine a hundred million cars adopting something like this. Crazy, if you ask me. A conventional rotary motor has two or three magnets and they don't even…

Some windshield wiper motors don't even have magnets --- they're wound-field types.

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#135

Post by gist »

simias wrote: post #111
userbinator wrote: post #29

Tesla mentions that the mechanical components of the traditional wiper blade create a lot of friction, which requires more power to the motor that moves the arm back and forth. I thought it was the friction of the wipers themselves on the glass that takes the most power... In any case, some research reveals that typical wiper motors are <50W, which even if that was reduced to 0, would be an insignificant fraction of…

I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move. These wipers (judging by the drawings) look cool and futuristic. If they ever implement them I'm sure that's going to be the main motivation. I can be very critical of Tesla but if there's one thing they achieved it's making electric vehicles that look cool. I don't think many teenagers saw a Prius as an aspirational vehicle but I'm pretty sure you could find Tes…

> I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move.

I wonder though if it's the right marketing move and the right deployment of resources.

Car manufacturers found out a long time ago that car sales are not driven by these types of improvements. Cars are purchased emotionally and to a lesser extent functionally. Obviously a Tesla is an emotional purchase since it doesn't really make sense for most buyers to burden themselves with the higher price and inconvenience of an electric car. This seems a great deal like a little icing on the cake of 'we are just a better purchase down to this type of detail'. That's separate from the GP assertion that there is little power savings.

Sure it gets employees thinking of power savings (similar to when Apollo was done everything mattered down to the last detail). But the development and implementation of this is not trivial and it will take meetings and decisions and testing. What else could be done with those resources?

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#136

Post by mlyle »

gist wrote: post #135
simias wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move. These wipers (judging by the drawings) look cool and futuristic. If they ever implement them I'm sure that's going to be the main motivation. I can be very critical of Tesla but if there's one thing they achieved it's making electric vehicles that look cool. I don't think many teenagers saw a Prius as an aspirational vehicle but I'm pretty sure you could find Tes…

> I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move. I wonder though if it's the right marketing move and the right deployment of resources. Car manufacturers found out a long time ago that car sales are not driven by these types of improvements. Cars are purchased emotionally and to a lesser extent functionally. Obviously a Tesla is an emotional purchase since it doesn't really make sense for most buyers to burd…

I think what he's saying by it being a marketing move is to try and generate reactions of "even the wipers are crazy high-tech!"

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#137

Post by npunt »

gist wrote: post #135
simias wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move. These wipers (judging by the drawings) look cool and futuristic. If they ever implement them I'm sure that's going to be the main motivation. I can be very critical of Tesla but if there's one thing they achieved it's making electric vehicles that look cool. I don't think many teenagers saw a Prius as an aspirational vehicle but I'm pretty sure you could find Tes…

> I think it's fairly obviously mainly a marketing move. I wonder though if it's the right marketing move and the right deployment of resources. Car manufacturers found out a long time ago that car sales are not driven by these types of improvements. Cars are purchased emotionally and to a lesser extent functionally. Obviously a Tesla is an emotional purchase since it doesn't really make sense for most buyers to burd…

The sum of many details that stir emotion is a whole that is emotionally compelling. If cars (or any consumer product) are purchased emotionally, and this feature is perceived as cool and futuristic, surely this will incrementally add to unit sales.

See also the Model 3's AC vents. Whatever their utility & whether its better than traditional ones, they are cool and futuristic and do their part to help the car stand out from the pack. Start adding all these up and you have something.

Car companies outsourced all these types of parts years ago, which severely limit their ability to pursue these types of innovations. That made economic sense when they were competing against organizations with similar cost-cutting strategies, and are a product of the era in which those choices were made and the business climate that encouraged those choices, but it leaves them at a disadvantage when a company takes a very different, tech-driven, vertically integrated approach to product.

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#138

Post by mlyle »

dannyw wrote: post #101
rumanator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 50W for 5 hours is 250Wh, which is a mile extra range. That’s worth having. That represents about 0.5% of a Tesla's advertised range.

You do 10 of these things and you have 5% better range, more than your competitor who ignores 0.5% savings.

Calling it 0.5% is generous.

* Only when it rains. (It's worthless the rest of the time)

* Only if all of the motor power is saved. (Presumably the new mechanism uses some power)

* Only if the motor is running at full power the entire time it rains (even on "high" this is not true).

* Only if range is not otherwise impacted by the rain (nope).

If it rains all the time, and the above are all true-- yes, it's worth 0.5%.

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#139

Post by [deleted] »

dannyw wrote: post #101
rumanator wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 50W for 5 hours is 250Wh, which is a mile extra range. That’s worth having. That represents about 0.5% of a Tesla's advertised range.

You do 10 of these things and you have 5% better range, more than your competitor who ignores 0.5% savings.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla has applied for a patent for a new electromagnetic windshield-wiper system

#140

Post by mehhh »

phkahler wrote: post #112
userbinator wrote: post #29

Tesla mentions that the mechanical components of the traditional wiper blade create a lot of friction, which requires more power to the motor that moves the arm back and forth. I thought it was the friction of the wipers themselves on the glass that takes the most power... In any case, some research reveals that typical wiper motors are <50W, which even if that was reduced to 0, would be an insignificant fraction of…

The maximum power of the car is not relevant to range. A Tesla uses between 200 and 300 Watt-hours per mile if I recall correctly. A Watt-hour (Whr) is a one watt load used for an hour. If it takes you 5 hours to deplete your battery, a 50W load for 5 hours will use 250 Whr. You will lose 1 mile of range because of it. When doing motor control work and dyno testing, one of the challenges is measurement of mechanical…

Comparatively, it takes me about 20 watt hours to 40 watt hours per mile to get around in hilly Seattle at a cruising speed of 20mph to 30mph.

Heavy cargo & towing can push my power usage up to 50 watt hours per mile. Note that all numbers are based on no pedaling.

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