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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#341

Post by endtime »

nickik wrote: post #320
drak0n1c wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During Israel's founding everyone who was an established resident in the territories was eligible for and offered first-class citizenship in the new state. Local Muslims and Christians who opted-in have enjoyed more prosperity and political representation over the decades than any of Israel's neighbors. Many minorities serve as leaders in the government, military, and private industry. Israel's neighbors were the one…

Yes the other arab states were morrons but there are millions of Palestinians living under Israeli control who not only lose their access to resources but also have no democratic representation at all.

The Palestinians have regular elections, not sure what you mean by no democratic representation.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#342

Post by endtime »

nickik wrote: post #222
endtime wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* An excuse to subsidize the US defence industry * Improvements to US military technology (Israel tweaks stuff and then we use their tweaks) * Anti-terrorism training and expertise (we started caring a lot more in 2001; they've been dealing with it longer than that) * A liberal democracy in a part of the world without any others (whether or not you value this is up to you, but many Americans do) * Intelligence * A lo…

Israel is a liberal democracy? Really, pretty sure its a Jewish state. Pretty sure the leaders of Israel would agree with me. Pretty sure this Jewish states has direct control over a couple million Muslims that are not allowed to vote.

Actually, Muslim Israelis can and do vote. Non-citizens obviously can't, like anywhere else. The Palestinians have their own elections and government(s).

Putting aside the nuances of "Jewish state" and what that does or doesn't mean, if you go to Israel you will find a culture and a people far closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#343

Post by zozbot234 »

endtime wrote: post #342
nickik wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is a liberal democracy? Really, pretty sure its a Jewish state. Pretty sure the leaders of Israel would agree with me. Pretty sure this Jewish states has direct control over a couple million Muslims that are not allowed to vote.

Actually, Muslim Israelis can and do vote. Non-citizens obviously can't, like anywhere else. The Palestinians have their own elections and government(s). Putting aside the nuances of "Jewish state" and what that does or doesn't mean, if you go to Israel you will find a culture and a people far closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

> you will find a culture and a people ... closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

Perhaps true, but these days Lebanon is up in the running. They do have a weird approach to "power sharing" in government, but it's not like Israel is free from its own sort of weirdness, as you've mentioned.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#344

Post by amitport »

tracer4201 wrote: post #340
amitport wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In general, anyone who speaks against Israel policies is ridiculed as an anti Semite" This is false. It's amazing that people actually think that when in practice many American politicians from all sides (including aipac itself) often speak against Israel.

No, it’s not false. AIPAC may have spoken against something very specific Israel did (such as denying American congresswomen entry) but in general, they and the Israeli lobby strong arm any opponents of Israeli policy.

I just want to point out that you went from "the narrative has been that not supporting Israel 100% unconditionally is equivalent to being anti Semitic." to "in general, they [aipac] and the Israeli lobby strong arm any opponents of Israeli policy."

Honestly, I'm not sure what aipac does or does not do, that's not the discussion I went into.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#345

Post by amitport »

nickik wrote: post #320
drak0n1c wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During Israel's founding everyone who was an established resident in the territories was eligible for and offered first-class citizenship in the new state. Local Muslims and Christians who opted-in have enjoyed more prosperity and political representation over the decades than any of Israel's neighbors. Many minorities serve as leaders in the government, military, and private industry. Israel's neighbors were the one…

Yes the other arab states were morrons but there are millions of Palestinians living under Israeli control who not only lose their access to resources but also have no democratic representation at all.

They still act as morrons when they deny citizenship from the grandchildren of those who migrated from Israel 70+ years ago

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#346

Post by endtime »

zozbot234 wrote: post #343
endtime wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, Muslim Israelis can and do vote. Non-citizens obviously can't, like anywhere else. The Palestinians have their own elections and government(s). Putting aside the nuances of "Jewish state" and what that does or doesn't mean, if you go to Israel you will find a culture and a people far closer to American values than anywhere else in the region.

> you will find a culture and a people ... closer to American values than anywhere else in the region. Perhaps true, but these days Lebanon is up in the running. They do have a weird approach to "power sharing" in government, but it's not like Israel is free from its own sort of weirdness, as you've mentioned.

By "power sharing" are you referring to Hizballah? I hope it's not too controversial to say that they don't exactly share American values.
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