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For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

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Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#71

Post by fouc »

aty268 wrote: post #25
computator wrote: post #22

Can I bounce an idea off Hacker News readers? How about doing live events at which you simply play -- on an overhead screen -- the very best videos or courseware from the web on selected technical topics. You get the best possible presentation and the chance to mingle with people who are keen on the same subject. You'd still need a person to act as a moderator or host, but there would be no official speakers. Would y…

I think the issue isn't that people aren't learning properly, it's more due to with the recognition of work and time required for no tangible reward. It's the same reason it's really hard for most people to sit down and learn coding on their own. It's not because lectures are hard to watch, or they aren't learning effectively, it's because you aren't getting anything tangible from it. Bootcamps are the same way, you…

A CS degree covers more than just programming. A bootcamp focuses on programming only.

Let's assume the CS degree has on average 1 out of 5 courses per semester that directly involves practicing programming, and not just filling up the requirements on liberal arts, and math, etc. 13 weeks * (3 hours lectures per week + 5 hours homework per week) * 2 semester per year * 4 years = 832 hours.

So a full-time developer bootcamp would need to be at least 5 months long to match.

Most are only 2.5 to 3 months long, but there are some 6 month long developer bootcamps. The short bootcamps might not have as much value, but still a good minimum start to development.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#72

Post by slooonz »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #52

I am always amazed when people make comments like this: "The results of the University of Texas at Austin’s first full-semester foray into massive open online courses, or MOOCs, are in." "Professor Michael Webber’s “Energy 101,” which had an enrollment that peaked at around 44,000 students, had 5,000 receive a certificate of completion — about 13 percent of the roughly 38,000 students who ultimately participated." So…

And remember that certificates of completion are now for paying users only. I’ve personally got a passing grade on some courses that didn't translate into a certificate because it's not interesting to me professionally and therefore don't pay for it. I still wouldn’t call it a failure.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#73

Post by znpy »

The question is, does it matter ?

I've been following the MOOC phenomenon since its early days in 2010-2011, and taken a lot of moocs in the meantime.

Sometime the mooc reveals to be low quality, and I quit because I can get better information from books and/or by actually messing with the technology (xkcd.com/519). Other times, I quit the part after the interesting part, or don't care about going through all the single details to get a worthless recognition ("a website says i've watched all the lessons").

Other times I pay for a course, go through all the lessons, do all the labs, get all the certificate of completion.

It really varies a lot, and most people ask the wrong question: it's not "how do we measure success" but "how do we measure success with respect to the original goals?"

Very little people care about an automated system somewhere recognizing my 100% completion of the course materials. But I (and possibly, possible employers) care about actual competencies. It's the same thing all over again: in real life pieces of paper don't matter, what matters is the capability of solving problems and handling situations.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#74

Post by dpflan »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #52

I am always amazed when people make comments like this: "The results of the University of Texas at Austin’s first full-semester foray into massive open online courses, or MOOCs, are in." "Professor Michael Webber’s “Energy 101,” which had an enrollment that peaked at around 44,000 students, had 5,000 receive a certificate of completion — about 13 percent of the roughly 38,000 students who ultimately participated." So…

Indeed, the sharing of information and knowledge obtainment has scaled. What are the traditional metrics of impact of a brick-and-mortar course? Is it just grades? Or is it deeper: students who go on to use the knowledge gained to find new ideas, new careers, etc? Reaching order(s) of magnitude more students probably means more of the latter effect/metric. For something like academics, I would think that the more people who have been exposed to useful information and peers interested in these ideas the better.

@turadg recounts how Coursera created statistics for partners: """The completion “rate” does not matter because the denominator is a very noisy signal. It’s a count of enrollments and what does “enrollment” signal in an online course, when it takes two clicks from a tweet."""

>> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20975443

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#75

Post by PLenz »

mnky9800n wrote: post #67
gamesbrainiac wrote: post #28

I think this emphasis on completion rates are a problem. I take a lot of MOOCs, but not all the content in said MOOCs are important. I just watch the parts of courses that are important or relevant to what I am doing, and call it a day. For people learning from non-conventional sources, they are used to using bits and pieces from different online sources and building up their own courses and their own paths. This fas…

I have done research on moocs. I think this article is a relic of it's time (2014). While some people are still focused on completion rates, I think many researchers have moved on to instead focus on other topics.

What are the current metrics?

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#76

Post by pixelperfect »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #52

I am always amazed when people make comments like this: "The results of the University of Texas at Austin’s first full-semester foray into massive open online courses, or MOOCs, are in." "Professor Michael Webber’s “Energy 101,” which had an enrollment that peaked at around 44,000 students, had 5,000 receive a certificate of completion — about 13 percent of the roughly 38,000 students who ultimately participated." So…

Also, taking but not completing MOOC shouldn't count as a failure. I've enrolled in ~8 courses on Coursera and never completed any of them, but I still gained a lot of value from what I learned in those courses.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#77

Post by rajesh-s »

In my opinion, the lack of geography-specific pricing makes the evaluation (tests and assignments) and certification inaccessible to a significant population. Of course, one can audit the course anytime but it’s hard to have the same level of sincerity and commitment when there’s no incentive (certification that can probably be showcased on LinkedIN or CV) or deadline based timeline for the course.

I appreciate that these courses have been made available to anyone who wants to learn, but my point is concerning the meagre completion rate.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#78

Post by strken »

learnstats2 wrote: post #68
strken wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might be free, but all the MOOCs I've participated in have required a weekly time commitment to complete them, which is a sort of hidden cost completely separate from money. I've started the Stanford ML course on Coursera three times now, and each time some real-life thing has come up and taken me out of action for a couple of weeks.

That's just what free means, isn't it? The cost is separate from money. I don't think it's hidden that you have to study in order to learn.

Studying isn't the problem, deadlines are the problem. If you could work at your own pace then I'd guess the completion rate would be substantially higher.

Re: For Online Courses, Questions Over How Success is Measured (2014)

#79

Post by huherto »

computator wrote: post #22

Can I bounce an idea off Hacker News readers? How about doing live events at which you simply play -- on an overhead screen -- the very best videos or courseware from the web on selected technical topics. You get the best possible presentation and the chance to mingle with people who are keen on the same subject. You'd still need a person to act as a moderator or host, but there would be no official speakers. Would y…

> the other aspect is the chance to socialize and talk with like-minded people.

This. Also to be seen in person, and social media that you are attending. To feel special. It is not a criticism, it is a human thing.

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