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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#621

Post by ClumsyPilot »

clarkmoody wrote: post #468
dontbenebby wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What a bizarre statement. Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. Private security firms are also not ideal.

The alternative is that all matters of security become political. We've seen plenty of examples where politically controlled security forces have done terrible things to significant portions of the citizenry they are presumably there to "protect & serve."

And, without politics and law, who are private security firms accountable to? The highest bidder?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#622

Post by ClumsyPilot »

justinzollars wrote: post #195
aduitsis wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if "they" decide to do something with their currency, "you" would like to be able to opt out. So you position your interests outside theirs (correct me if I'm wrong). Fair enough, it's certainly your right. But in that light, what France and Germany are doing makes sense too. At the end of the day, they too have the right to protect their collective interests, correct? Or would you have them do something that goe…

I'm pro innovation! I can not understand why entrepreneurs have such targets on their back these days on hackernews.

I feel its most Facebook and BigTech that are facing scrutiny, It is targeted and justified but they are not entrepreneurs. They are now large institutions,and should face scrutiny.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#623

Post by austhrow743 »

meschi wrote: post #599
azernik wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"capital controls" generally includes foreign exchange controls, i.e. restrictions on conversion to foreign currency and local use of foreign currency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls

And why should this be different for a private currency controlled by facebook?

It shouldn't. All capital control is terrible. It could be different though.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#624

Post by colejohnson66 »

lacker wrote: post #614
zaphirplane wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel there is a conflation here. Facebook is free to apply for a banking license in countries they want to operate as a bank in. Facebook shouldn’t be able to circumvent banking over site and regulations by coming in as a technology company with fancy words. The conflation here is Facebook isn’t being blocked form becoming a licensed bank in Germany - correct me if I’m wrong

But they don’t want to become a bank. They want to build a cryptocurrency. There are already hundreds of cryptocurrencies that operate in France and Germany, and the developers do not have to have banking licenses.

Are we sure those crypto developers are acting within the law? Genuine question.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#625

Post by scoobyyabbadoo »

Zak wrote: post #572
WhoBeI wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping this would happen. It will probably become a EU thing now. The idea of a privately controlled currency needs to die quickly. Never been a fan of crypto currency in general but Bitcoin, and the like, are accepted because they are not centralized. Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight.

I'm quite fond of the idea of a decentralized currency that nobody has the ability to actively control becoming popular. That would act as a hedge against abuse of power by both governments and corporations. A currency used worldwide, controlled by a corporation, and under the influence of the US government would be the exact opposite, and is not a thing I want to see succeed.

>I'm quite fond of the idea of a decentralized currency that nobody has the ability to actively control becoming popular. That would act as a hedge against abuse of power by both governments and corporations.

Precisely what Satoshi Nakamoto cited as his motivations when introducing bitcoin on the p2pfoundation forums.

>A currency used worldwide, controlled by a corporation, and under the influence of the US government would be the exact opposite, and is not a thing I want to see succeed.

Completely agreed. The U.S. has been using any reach it has into other countries to push its very peculiar cultural viewpoints into countries that don't want them but need fair access to finance capital.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#626

Post by np_tedious »

mosselman wrote: post #322
KhoomeiK wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to some foobar in the last century, which I'm sure everyone is aware of. Ironic that aforementioned foobar in the last century was a governmental entity that existed entirely within the limits of regulation. Not to…

So people or governments are not allowed to make mistakes and learn from them? If, apparently, something likewise happened in the past and caused lots of problems, the German government should just let it happen now just so that it isn't 'ironic'? Not to mention the fact that the German government around the second world war was completely different from the current German government in terms of the actual people mak…

But this behavior is not an example of learning. In fact, as Libra could potentially limits government power and encourages sound money money, one could argue this is the opposite of the dangers you mentioned.

This false equivalence borders on Godwin's law. Combine that with the 9/11 rhetoric in the US hearings and it's really quite telling how they get SO scared. Idk how far it's going to go, and it might not be Libra at all, but there is so so clearly big role for crypto currencies to play.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#628

Post by scoobyyabbadoo »

arethuza wrote: post #279
tannhaeuser wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision I think Monsieur Macron has put this onto the agenda when Libra was announced. I'm not disagreeing with the decision and have similar concerns as you, but I'm still uncertain whether the state should even have the ability to block these and other things in general. Most of all, I miss a British voice here (as, sadly, not very much longer an EU…

"not very much longer an EU member" I don't think there is much chance of Brexit this year, and a pretty good chance that it will never happen. Mind you - always a chance that we'll simply get thrown out for being incompetent at running a country...

Yeah it is very peculiar how the British elites was able to establish the Mandate for Palestine to give Jewish people their own state but haven't been able to establish something giving British people their own state even after it was explicitly requested.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#629

Post by insulanus »

auslander wrote: post #617
black_puppydog wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is exactly why you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. Which is why I (also as a German) am very happy that we have a competitive (read: better in literally every way) alternative to credit cards, plus a strong cash culture. Oh and for completeness' sake: if paypal (and libra for that matter) are not regulated according to…

> you can't risk to have anything even remotely approaching a monopoly in any part of the systems involved in making transactions. AFAIK US is a monopoly for international money transfer. You just cannot bypass a US intermediary bank and US Dollar conversion.

And those intermediaries are very closely watched by entities with power to affect the system, not by powerless "consumers" who's only choice is to shrug and choose another provider (if available).

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#630

Post by ajhurliman »

marksomnian wrote: post #339
Jerry2 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love this quote: > As Sarah Jamie Lewis, the director of the Canadian nonprofit Open Privacy, put it: “Can’t wait for a cryptocurrency with the ethics of Uber, the censorship resistance of Paypal, and the centralization of Visa, all tied together under the proven privacy of Facebook.”

Surely she meant decentralisation, though? Visa is anything but decentralised.

They're two different ends of the same scale, like "It's has hard as a rock" vs "It's as soft as a rock".

Either way, though, they're making fun of Libra. Visa is not decentralized and Uber is not ethical.

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