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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#571

Post by azernik »

twistiti wrote: post #503
IGotThroughIt wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeedy. My country has 7% inflation. And that calculation is done by the very state that is responsible for inflation so their word on this only means so much. Any other currency or store of value that solves this is more than welcome.

Would it be a solution for you to buy foreign currencies with lower inflation amount (e.g. EUR)?

"capital controls" generally includes foreign exchange controls, i.e. restrictions on conversion to foreign currency and local use of foreign currency.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_controls

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#572

Post by Zak »

WhoBeI wrote: post #522
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

I was hoping this would happen. It will probably become a EU thing now. The idea of a privately controlled currency needs to die quickly. Never been a fan of crypto currency in general but Bitcoin, and the like, are accepted because they are not centralized. Your Bitcoin won't change in value or disappear because your country and another get in a fight.

I'm quite fond of the idea of a decentralized currency that nobody has the ability to actively control becoming popular. That would act as a hedge against abuse of power by both governments and corporations.

A currency used worldwide, controlled by a corporation, and under the influence of the US government would be the exact opposite, and is not a thing I want to see succeed.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#573

Post by azernik »

simplecomplex wrote: post #537
gzer0 wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.

Preventing people from preserving their wealth and the fruits of their labor is not liberty. It’s a restriction of liberty. Capital controls have historically been associated with despotic governments. Why shouldn’t I be able to put my wealth where I want ?

They've also been associated with places like Finland, Israel, France, and the UK. Capital controls are just a necessary enforcement mechanism for attempts to control the exchange rate of a currency.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#574

Post by azernik »

buboard wrote: post #475
akie wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, you’re being (deliberately?) quite liberal with the truth here.

Maybe not "imposes" , it's voluntary participation. But there is no easy , not even intermediate route out of the Euro. And as money, it's not much different from a hard currency you can't control for countries that can't catch up with the developed economies of the north.

The "liberal with the truth" bit isn't about the ability to exit; it's about the EU being "externally controlled". The EU is an organization of which each Eurozone member is, well, a member. They have votes in the EU Parliament and European Council (the latter is responsible for appointing the ECB president) and a say in deciding the membership of the Executive Board.

(Indeed, the German Constitutional Court generally rules on the constitutionality of power transfers to Brussels based on the degree to which the control of said powers is democratic.)

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#575

Post by nugget »

dpau wrote: post #419
blackbrokkoli wrote: post #225

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

Last week I wanted to purchase a used item but discovered that, without warning or notification, Marketplace was deactivated from my Facebook account. My Facebook account is quite active, with posts, discussion in multiple groups, and hundreds of friends. I still have no clue as to what rule I triggered and no recourse to reactivate it. Now imagine that's my digital Libra bank account? No thanks.

Isn't the answer better consumer protections, though? Rather than a ban on new technology that threatens the status quo. If Facebook wants to be a bank, they should be subject to the banking regulators and there could be (should be) strong consumer protections preventing the type of corporate behavior you describe.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#576

Post by azernik »

moogly wrote: post #316
parsimo2010 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything Academi/Xe/Blackwater ever did was at the behest of the US government. GP was talking about a scenario such as Apple hiring Academi to destroy Samsung's factories. So far we have private companies providing security/defensive services, but we have yet to see private companies providing mercenary/offensive services without the explicit involvement of a government.

Pinkerton?

The Pinkertons are considered the epitome of the "Wild West" - that is, the total lack of state control of law and order in the American West. Their intervention in strikes in the East is, to put it mildly, not a good example of law and order and a functioning state.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#577

Post by buboard »

azernik wrote: post #574
buboard wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not "imposes" , it's voluntary participation. But there is no easy , not even intermediate route out of the Euro. And as money, it's not much different from a hard currency you can't control for countries that can't catch up with the developed economies of the north.

The "liberal with the truth" bit isn't about the ability to exit; it's about the EU being "externally controlled". The EU is an organization of which each Eurozone member is, well, a member. They have votes in the EU Parliament and European Council (the latter is responsible for appointing the ECB president) and a say in deciding the membership of the Executive Board. (Indeed, the German Constitutional Court generall…

i meant that the Euro, as national currency of italy and greece, is "externally controlled", cannot be bent to the needs of those countries , but to the needs of germany. Eurozone is not the EU

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#579

Post by djohnston »

kazen44 wrote: post #570
djohnston wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fb deciding what's on fb is not as harmful as a govt deciding what's on fb, IMO

this highly depends on what kind of ethics and culture your goverment has compared to what facebook has.

Not really. Over the long run almost all govts of any significance will do bad things. You limit the effects of these bad govts with proactively by restricting their powers at all times. This is why you shouldn't give more power to a govt because it's doing well in the 10 year window. Facebook's reach is limited by being on fb.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#580

Post by ajhurliman »

I think the biggest threat that the US government sees in crypto currencies is the ability of adversarial countries (Russia, Iran, etc) to avoid sanctions. If you want to conduct international financial transactions, you must do it in US dollars, and the US government controls that.

In the future, if governments (or private entities) can get around that, then the US doesn't really have any non-military leverage. The US government seems interested in Libra because if it grows and becomes the de facto crypto currency in the future, and they have a good amount of control over it, then they don't lose any power.

Then again, they might lose control over it while Facebook just hustles everyone for their data and money. France and Germany are probably interested in the international financial systems being stable, but are probably a lot less inclined than the US to bet on Libra because they don't control the US dollar right now anyways, and if anything goes sideways they can't really control FB either.

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