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Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

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Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#81

When will we stop pretending like silver bullet solutions exist and that we can tamper with natural systems like this without introducing impactful unintended consequences? We've repeatedly observed that what happens in the lab has little to do with what happens in nature, yet we ignore this lesson routinely and dangerously. Does science have a learning disorder? Could it be, in part, a lack of humility?

Science can no more have a learning disorder than binary numbering systems can have a color, books can think. To blame science is a hopeless reification and insane as a murderer trying to claim innocence because it was crime that killed the victim and not them.

We have in fact solved mosquitoes before but I suspect you would like the side effects even less because everyone would. Filling in swamps and wetlands completely, and mass less than selective insecticide sprayings were how it was done before. They did in fact sicken and kill people through side effects via reduced water quality and exposure to toxins but far fewer than malaria even in the short term. Humanity is frankly terrifying when they are angered enough to cause extinctions deliberately instead of through callousness or accident. Genetic engineering /is/ trying the less harmful option.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#82
post #15

Despite this failure, I still think the species should be targeted for extinction. What are our options?

And presumably all the birds will have plenty of other things to eat, right?

Yup. There are plenty of other species of mosquito to eat. Eradicating one or a dozen species of mosquito will not lower the number of mosquitoes.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#83

The linked article (edit: it has been changed) is rather confusing so I'd like to highlight the fact that the underlying study[1] hints at two very specific observations: 1) The effectiveness started to decrease after 18 months: the population of Ae. aegypti progressively returned back to its normal levels—and this despite the continued release every week of 450 thousand males of the modified strain. 2) Some hybrid o…

More generally, and IMO the most important point: an assumption was made that the modified animals would not be able to reproduce. This turns out not to be the case, and therefore the genetic modifications made are now in the wild. In this case, as far as I can tell, there's little cause for alarm. But with a different alteration, things might be worse, and one wonders about the robustness of the decision making proc…

Did no one watch Jurassic Park? You can't put genetic alterations in the environment and expect them not to propagate. The idea that this is possible has been proven multiple times to be utterly and completely false. No matter what the level of care or control. You put it out there, and there is any possibility for it to proliferate... it will proliferate. Period. People don't learn they still think they are in control, you know that they are crazy. Just like you think anyone saying something like this is.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#84
How wrong am I to draw the conclusion from this, that people claiming that GMOs are "completely safe" (i.e. cannot have unexpected side effects, such as creation of super-species that completely crowds out other, non-GMO and now inferior, species in the specific niche, or the migration/expression of toxin-producing genes in unexpected places) are full of bullshit?

That's my knee-jerk conclusion, I'd be really interested in hearing counterarguments.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#85
post #84

How wrong am I to draw the conclusion from this, that people claiming that GMOs are "completely safe" (i.e. cannot have unexpected side effects, such as creation of super-species that completely crowds out other, non-GMO and now inferior, species in the specific niche, or the migration/expression of toxin-producing genes in unexpected places) are full of bullshit? That's my knee-jerk conclusion, I'd be really interes…

Life by definition is a process of genetic modification

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned, we can spread dragonflies, a beneficial insect that eats many mosquitoes a day both in larval form and in the air. Dragonflies are also an important prey item for birds and bats, both of which have decreased in numbers in recent years and would benefit from more food sources. We can restore some of our wetlands, where dragonflies breed, and try to eliminate standing water in urban areas as much as possi…

Dragonflies are not picky predators. Their larvae are essentially miniature murder machines that happily devour fish and amphibians along with other insects until they undergo metamorphosis, and they continue the process as adults. I would be very wary about introducing them anywhere they didn't already exist.

Agreed; fortunately, dragonflies are pretty much found all over the world, so shouldn't be a major change to introduce them in an area where they've become scarce.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#88
post #85
post #84

How wrong am I to draw the conclusion from this, that people claiming that GMOs are "completely safe" (i.e. cannot have unexpected side effects, such as creation of super-species that completely crowds out other, non-GMO and now inferior, species in the specific niche, or the migration/expression of toxin-producing genes in unexpected places) are full of bullshit? That's my knee-jerk conclusion, I'd be really interes…

Life by definition is a process of genetic modification

Truisms don't make for productive discussions. Picture yourself receiving a cancer diagnosis followed by your statement above.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#89
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with those arguments is that no potential harm through such genetic modifications has been demonstrated yet. Even those mosquitoes surviving has done no harm. A downside to Hormones is that you need to find the breeding grounds. Potentially every puddle or container of water. However, the modified male mosquitoes are like homing missiles.

And again, just like the others in the past who I argued with, you read nothing I put down. You saw hormone and knee jerked. The hormones in question are not found in other animals, and has been widely tested for a decade prior to field use in Florida. Working off my memory from diving into this a few years ago, the hormones are what regulate the dissolve rate of the shell pupa to adult stage. It's introduced at a se…

Thanks for this comment. Delighted to hear (what I assume is) an expert's opinion.

Re: Genetically modified mosquitoes breed in Brazil

#90
post #39

« However, it was already known from previous laboratory experiments that a small proportion of about three to four percent of OX513A descendants can reach adulthood; the scientists had assumed that those would be too weak to reproduce. » Ugh! This release should never have passed review.

I agree. Any biologist worth their salt would see that result and imagine the outcome that we got. Unlike physics and chemistry, where a set of trials will behave in a mathematically nice way, biology experiments are notoriously variable. You will get outliers, and they will be weirder than you can imagine.
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