Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

slate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 206 posts

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#91

Post by [deleted] »

jacquesm wrote: post #65
markbnj wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of no theory predicting porcine aeronautics :). In any case, the point is that it is not impossible that what you consider very unlikely is exactly what happened. So we wait for all the information before making judgements.

> So we wait for all the information before making judgements. There is absolutely zero chance that 'all the information' will ever come out. The people directly affected will have nothing to lose, the remainder will be afraid for their jobs and will not talk or will only talk off the record. The company will claim it was nothing of the sort. And yet, magically, no union will ever be formed.

[deleted]

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#93

Post by paulddraper »

comex wrote: post #21
paulddraper wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> give the cover story more plausibility Do they need to? Many employers would rather publicize it: we don't tolerate a union.

Retaliating against someone for trying to unionize is a violation of the National Labor Relations Act, as well as New York state law (Kickstarter is headquartered in New York) – hence the need for a cover story.

Oh, interesting.

There was an episode of the U.S. version of The Office where an exec said they'd all be fired if they got "even a whiff" of unionization. And really openly to dozens of people, not in any sort of wink-wink way.

I figured this was a legit threat in the U.S.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#94

Post by busterarm »

jacquesm wrote: post #30
djrogers wrote: post #25

Not a big fan of this headline - it's inflammatory and incomplete. This is one (unproven and completely unsubstantiated) accusation from one side of the story, made in a handful of tweets. Kickstarter also tweeted, and of course denies this: https://twitter.com/kickstarter/status/1172230162588536833 The problem with this type of link on HN is that it's not a 'story' - there's no investigative reporting - heck there's…

What are the chances of three people trying to unionize in a company being fired in a very short span of time for 'performance' reasons? Are you holding out until the company says 'Ok, caught, yes, we did fire them for trying to unionize'?

And 14 of the 15 people eligible out of the 28 people backing unionization at Kickstarter got a raise or promotion...

Hmm...

I know a handful of people at Kickstarter, including some of the union backers. A fair number of employees have concerns about how the folks trying to organize the union have acted. Seems they deliberately have gone to the press as leverage against the company rather than work to get employees to back their cause.

It's a 140 person company and they only have the public support of 20% of the staff.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#95

Post by jacquesm »

busterarm wrote: post #94
jacquesm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances of three people trying to unionize in a company being fired in a very short span of time for 'performance' reasons? Are you holding out until the company says 'Ok, caught, yes, we did fire them for trying to unionize'?

And 14 of the 15 people eligible out of the 28 people backing unionization at Kickstarter got a raise or promotion... Hmm... I know a handful of people at Kickstarter, including some of the union backers. A fair number of employees have concerns about how the folks trying to organize the union have acted. Seems they deliberately have gone to the press as leverage against the company rather than work to get employees…

So you are confirming they were fired for trying to unionize? Thank you. It is interesting that the 'going to the press' bit gets trotted out as if that is something the employees should not have done. Companies go to the press all the time when it suits them, but employees using the press as leverage is beyond the pale.

Of course they would go to the press, if retaliation is imminent that is one of the last ways in which an employee might defend themselves. It wouldn't be the first time that the press served to right a wrong, and it certainly won't be the last.

If 20% of the company supported unionization that makes it 150/5 = 30 people at most, 3 of which have been fired in a very short window of time. That's going to help a lot in the inevitable court case.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#96

Post by jodrellblank »

namirez wrote: post #83
bsamuels wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could definitely a envision a theoretical situation where three poorly performing employees decide to unionize to protect themselves, then eventually get fired for poor performance. Is that what happened? I don't know, but I'm not going to trust two tweets from two parties whose interests are against one another.

You need to back up your claim with evidence. In order to establish a union, you'll need at least 30% of the workers signing a petition. Would you sign such a petition if your incompetent colleague put it forward to you in the hope of protecting their job? Honestly, your scenario is far-fetched.

In order to establish a union, you'll need at least 30% of the workers signing a petition

Why do you, what's the reasoning behind that kind of law? And to whom do they petition - does the company have to agree, or rather, does the employer have the right to forbid employees from forming agreements between themselves? It sounds counterintuitive when you only need 1 person to start a company, or 2 people to have a contract, and when employers have no other control over who employees meet with and little control over how employees spend money (e.g. 'work dress code').

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#97

Post by nickjj »

shakezula wrote: post #79
nickjj wrote: post #70

I know close to nothing about unions or the KS story but I am from the US and myself along with almost everyone I know tend to associate unions with extreme wasting of resources. This is coming at it from a spectator's point of view (ie. not a union worker / not a unionized business owner). For example, I've witnessed an overpass taking over 2 years to finish (it was blocked off / limited access / under construction…

That type of inefficiency isn’t exclusive to unions, you realize that right? You realize that maybe there were other factors involved that caused the bridge to take that long? You realize that construction is often a very sequential process that can block other steps from being completed until the first is done? Every part of your comment is completely anecdotal and could be due to myriad other factors. > associate u…

> Sounds like 30+ years of anti-union propaganda working its charm.

I dunno. I see it all over the place.

Look at the US government. Most of the govt. run customer facing services are abysmal when it comes to efficiency (DMV, etc.). From my quick Googling the DMV is unionized. It doesn't end at the DMV either.

I know some types of construction jobs are usually sequential but I don't understand how in any circumstance it can take 2 years to fix 30 feet of road while it disrupted traffic the whole time. This isn't an isolated case either, I see similar things all the time.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#98

Post by busterarm »

jacquesm wrote: post #95
busterarm wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 14 of the 15 people eligible out of the 28 people backing unionization at Kickstarter got a raise or promotion... Hmm... I know a handful of people at Kickstarter, including some of the union backers. A fair number of employees have concerns about how the folks trying to organize the union have acted. Seems they deliberately have gone to the press as leverage against the company rather than work to get employees…

So you are confirming they were fired for trying to unionize? Thank you. It is interesting that the 'going to the press' bit gets trotted out as if that is something the employees should not have done. Companies go to the press all the time when it suits them, but employees using the press as leverage is beyond the pale. Of course they would go to the press, if retaliation is imminent that is one of the last ways in…

How do you even read that as that?

All I said was that 28 people in the company publicly stated their support for a union (there's 42 needed to establish one).

15 of those 28 people were eligible for a promotion or raise. 14 of those 15 received their promotion or raise.

Doesn't look like union busting at all to me, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

My comment about the press was because the pro-union group is having a hard time getting those 14 additional people they needed to support them and in the meantime have created a ton of bad press for the company, which does impact the assets of the very employees they're supposed to be supporting the interests of.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#99

Post by SamReidHughes »

Animats wrote: post #16

Don't be a scab! Don't put your project on Kickstarter! Don't contribute to Kickstarters!

Even if I cared, that would depend on the union demands. Why would I care for "salary equity, diversity in hiring, and wanting a seat at the table when it comes to company decisions"? That list of goals is 2/3rds evil, 1/3rd the exact opposite of what a content creator wants of their platform.

(Edit: that quote is of a Slate article)

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#100

Post by SamReidHughes »

PorterDuff wrote: post #92

re: Unions If a software union only existed to deal with the following: . Pensions . Health insurance I can see the point.

And open office plans.

Edit: Also, compile times. Get your C++ devs a goddamn build server or else even I'd join the union.

Post reply on HN