Live data from Hacker News

Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

slate.com

81–90 of 206 posts

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances of three people trying to unionize in a company being fired in a very short span of time for 'performance' reasons? Are you holding out until the company says 'Ok, caught, yes, we did fire them for trying to unionize'?

Pretty likely that the kind of person trying to unionize at a company isn't fully focused on doing their work for the company.

Maybe we'd be able to focus on our work better if we had a union protecting is from this kind of corporate behaviour.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#82
post #70

I know close to nothing about unions or the KS story but I am from the US and myself along with almost everyone I know tend to associate unions with extreme wasting of resources. This is coming at it from a spectator's point of view (ie. not a union worker / not a unionized business owner). For example, I've witnessed an overpass taking over 2 years to finish (it was blocked off / limited access / under construction…

> If I were a company I would be terrified that such inefficiencies are protected by a union.

You can't 'be' a company. You can run one, at best.

And if unionized employees terrify you in a country where unionization is legal then maybe simply do not start a company?

> can someone more knowledgeable in this area explain how a unionized workforce benefits both employees and the business hiring them

In theory - not always in practice - unions create a more level playing field in the asymmetrical relationship between employer and employee, it restores some of the balance of power. Collective bargaining means that employers can no longer reduce negotiations by serially negotiating with one employee at the time, but have the negotiate with all employees at once. This has had a remarkable effect on the division of the value created by those employees over the years that we have had unions.

Now, in practice, of course not everything is quite that simple and unions can be co-opted by the company, and there are plenty of examples of unions that ended up being self serving power structures in their own right but we - collectively, the voters - still believe in most countries that unions are such a big net effect that retaliation against employees for wanting to unionize is illegal under the law.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the chances of three people trying to unionize in a company being fired in a very short span of time for 'performance' reasons? Are you holding out until the company says 'Ok, caught, yes, we did fire them for trying to unionize'?

I could definitely a envision a theoretical situation where three poorly performing employees decide to unionize to protect themselves, then eventually get fired for poor performance. Is that what happened? I don't know, but I'm not going to trust two tweets from two parties whose interests are against one another.

You need to back up your claim with evidence. In order to establish a union, you'll need at least 30% of the workers signing a petition. Would you sign such a petition if your incompetent colleague put it forward to you in the hope of protecting their job? Honestly, your scenario is far-fetched.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unionization's primary purpose is to increase the price of labor (in the form of wages, or in the form of increased benefits) by constricting supply. That's an interesting theory, but no, that is not Unionization's primary purpose. The primary purpose of Unionization is to make it possible for employees to collectively bargain about whatever subjects they see fit through a horizontal link between all employees in o…

Right, and why is collective bargaining any more useful and individual bargaining? Because when individuals rejects the company's offer, the total supply of labor is nearly unchanged. When whole industries reject the companies offer, the supply of labor drops to zero (or to the subset of workers that aren't part of the union). Collective bargaining gives employees leverage over employers by drastically reducing the s…

> why is collective bargaining any more useful and individual bargaining

Because collective bargaining means that the party with the largest resources and the power, in this case the company, will have to at least take into account their ability to operate.

> Collective bargaining gives employees leverage over employers by drastically reducing the supply of labor available to the company if their bargains are not met.

Exactly. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that when that power is used appropriately. As evidenced by a very long history that turned out to be an extremely good thing.

Note that such niceties as workplace safety; medical coverage and 5 day workweeks were in large part due to union involvement.

This whole discussion is right along the lines of 'what have the Romans ever done for us' from Monty Python.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#86
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the consequences are (AIUI) not very significant for the company.

What do you understand the consequences to be?

After months of investigation they may have to re-hire the worker and pay them back their salary.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#87

Not a big fan of this headline - it's inflammatory and incomplete. This is one (unproven and completely unsubstantiated) accusation from one side of the story, made in a handful of tweets. Kickstarter also tweeted, and of course denies this: https://twitter.com/kickstarter/status/1172230162588536833 The problem with this type of link on HN is that it's not a 'story' - there's no investigative reporting - heck there's…

> it's not a 'story' - there's no investigative reporting - heck there's no reporting at all.

https://slate.com/technology/2019/09/kickstarter-turmoil-uni...

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#88

This article was posted to HN yesterday or maybe the day before: https://slate.com/technology/2019/09/kickstarter-turmoil-uni... It looks like unionization wasn't the only point of contention. In particular, a segment of Kickstarter's workforce conflicted with company leadership over an "Always Punch Nazis" comic book kickstarter project apparently made in reference to violence against Richard Spencer. Employees pres…

It's an interesting problem. There's some sort of rule of thumb here (it needs a name).

. Due to network effects, websites sites tend towards monopolies.

. Due to human tribalism, websites tend towards bias.

Even given some sort of publishing rules, I can't imagine how you veer away from this. The quest for wealth might keep you from choosing up sides, but not always.

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#89

This article was posted to HN yesterday or maybe the day before: https://slate.com/technology/2019/09/kickstarter-turmoil-uni... It looks like unionization wasn't the only point of contention. In particular, a segment of Kickstarter's workforce conflicted with company leadership over an "Always Punch Nazis" comic book kickstarter project apparently made in reference to violence against Richard Spencer. Employees pres…

Alternately, doesn't this mean Kickstarter censored satirical content due to a far-right hit piece? Shouldn't people be decrying censorship at every turn? Because that's exactly what happened in this case when leadership decided to veto the decision and take it down.

You mean this?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/282505033/always-punch-...

Re: Kickstarter’s Year of Turmoil

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could definitely a envision a theoretical situation where three poorly performing employees decide to unionize to protect themselves, then eventually get fired for poor performance. Is that what happened? I don't know, but I'm not going to trust two tweets from two parties whose interests are against one another.

Shouldn't you be applying Occam's razor here? Attempting to make a conspiracy out of an attempt to unionize seems like a rather poor argument. In this case, the employees coming out with this knowledge have everything to lose because they could easily be blacklisted from further jobs. Kickstarter has no reason to not deny their accusations and has everything to gain from it. If someone is risking a their livelihood t…

I don't think this is the best place to apply Occam's razor. Why would I want to rush to a conclusion based on a couple of tweets by someone I know so little about? I don't know his personal circumstances, I don't know what he wants to accomplish or what he stands to win or lose with those tweets, I don't really know what interest the company would have from firing him and the others or to lose from a union. I know nothing of this so I don't see the need to pick a side on a conflict that has little to do with me.

If a few months from now, I read an article about what just happened now and it turns out that the company ends up being fined or something because the motivations behind firing him are actually what he claims, then it's the moment we can start being outraged, not before.

Post reply on HN