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Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

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Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#61

Post by caoilte »

rhegart wrote: post #42
tdhz77 wrote: post #2

The use of drones in this way by rebels makes me rethink the media image of a rebel. They are educated, lawyers, doctors, engineers.

Iran funds this. The advanced rockets by Hamas, the drones by the Houthi. Proxy war like usual. They are using Yemen for themselves uncaring of lives, we are killing so many innocent in Yemen. Life’s complicated but after the Iran deal, funding these groups by Iran increased significantly, and so did our subsequent killing of innocents.

Life is indeed complicated. What fueled Iran's involvement in Yemen was Saudia Arabia invading it. They worked very hard to keep the Houthis at arms length prior to that because as different religious sects go the only thing they really have in common is that the really nasty fundamentalist women-hating Sunni sects (ie the Saudis) hate them both for being different.

And what kick started the war in Yemen? That would be a daddy's boy prince wanting to prove he could win his own war without daddy's help (that went well).

None of which would happen if we didn't really enjoy selling guns to the Saudis, on account of all the money they've taken from us when they sold us oil.

And we'd still be happily selling arms to the Iranian King we installed if they hadn't got sick of it and thrown us out.

So this is on us. All of it.

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#62

Post by droithomme »

partialrecall wrote: post #10
tdhz77 wrote: post #2

The use of drones in this way by rebels makes me rethink the media image of a rebel. They are educated, lawyers, doctors, engineers.

It should be noted, engineers being well represented in these sort of rebel/revolutionary/terrorist organizations isn't a new phenomenon. Here is an article from a decade ago: https://slate.com/technology/2009/12/why-do-so-many-terroris... The notion of terrorists as uneducated goat farmers is more a manifestation of western biases than it is an accurate representation of the truth.

You see Yemeni citizens defending their country against Saudi war crimes and the murder of innocent civilians as terrorism, huh? No wonder you had to make a new account just to post that opinion! What's your regular account here?

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#63

Post by droithomme »

en-us wrote: post #22
partialrecall wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted, engineers being well represented in these sort of rebel/revolutionary/terrorist organizations isn't a new phenomenon. Here is an article from a decade ago: https://slate.com/technology/2009/12/why-do-so-many-terroris... The notion of terrorists as uneducated goat farmers is more a manifestation of western biases than it is an accurate representation of the truth.

I see this in discussions about 9/11 all the time, where someone will express incredulity that it would be possible for a bunch of "goat farmers" to execute such a plan. But if you actually look at those terrorists, many were educated and from well-to-do families.

Yemenis defending their country are terrorists?

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#64

Post by edf13 »

aazaa wrote: post #9

An unusual (and worrying) part about this incident is how drones are being used, not with an explicit military goal in mind, but rather for the purpose of economic strangulation. Like terrorist operatives, drones are relatively cheap and expendible. But unlike terrorism, which seeks to grind away at the enemy's resolve, this kind of attack attempts to deprive an enemy of the money needed to fund its operations. Like…

And watch the share prices of Drone Defence companies soar...

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#65

Post by peter303 »

Environmentalists say they might shut down Heathrow airport with drones because they dont like new construction. They would announce an hour in advance such a demonstration.

Authorities warn of severe prison sentences if they catch some doing this.

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#66

Post by johntiger1 »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #56
beaner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevented that from being possible before?

You needed airplanes, and antiaircraft weapons were so much cheaper. With drones the calculation is the other way around. It completely changes the face of war, offensive warfare is now possible again. Ernst Jünger said something similar when he witnessed the first tanks in World War 1.

You can't just have an AA gun on every street corner; air power is so powerful precisely because of its mobility and strategic reach

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#67

Post by weberc2 »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #54
aazaa wrote: post #9

An unusual (and worrying) part about this incident is how drones are being used, not with an explicit military goal in mind, but rather for the purpose of economic strangulation. Like terrorist operatives, drones are relatively cheap and expendible. But unlike terrorism, which seeks to grind away at the enemy's resolve, this kind of attack attempts to deprive an enemy of the money needed to fund its operations. Like…

This is classic war fare and not terrorism. The Saudi's have made a mess of the conflict in Yemen, which is more or less part of a bigger proxy war that also involves the US and Iran. On paper it's rebels vs what passes for a government there locally. But in practice it's Iran sponsored weaponry vs. Us & EU sponsored weaponry. If you look at a map, the reasons are obvious. The Saudi's are connected to international w…

Why can’t the Saudis likewise shut off Iran’s oil any time they want?

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#68

Post by peter303 »

Trump may be secretly transferring unspecified nuclear technology to Saudis. (Jared goes there often) There is a meeting about this next week. The cover story for this is that Saudi would like to diversify their energy production. Some people fear this includes weapons technology.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-secret-campaign-to-...

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#69

Post by mhkool »

weberc2 wrote: post #67
jillesvangurp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is classic war fare and not terrorism. The Saudi's have made a mess of the conflict in Yemen, which is more or less part of a bigger proxy war that also involves the US and Iran. On paper it's rebels vs what passes for a government there locally. But in practice it's Iran sponsored weaponry vs. Us & EU sponsored weaponry. If you look at a map, the reasons are obvious. The Saudi's are connected to international w…

Why can’t the Saudis likewise shut off Iran’s oil any time they want?

Because Iran knows how to defend itself.

Re: Saudi Arabia Shuts Down About Half Its Oil Output After Drone Strikes

#70

Post by nostrademons »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #56
beaner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prevented that from being possible before?

You needed airplanes, and antiaircraft weapons were so much cheaper. With drones the calculation is the other way around. It completely changes the face of war, offensive warfare is now possible again. Ernst Jünger said something similar when he witnessed the first tanks in World War 1.

Seems like drones preference the attacker over the defender on a tactical scale (because they're cheap and numerous) but preference local warfare over global warfare on a strategic scale (because to get that cheapness you need to sacrifice range & performance). They favor insurgent groups over power projection. Supply lines for offensive warfare also get more challenging with drones, because you have this great weapon that doesn't require any people on the front lines to use, but it still requires a great deal of manpower on the back line to service and maintain.

I'd say the analogous technology is really the musket. On the battlefield it gave an advantage over knights, cavalry, and swordsmen, but it also gave that advantage to unskilled groups of militia rather than organized fiefdoms that could field large numbers of mounted knights and the support staff needed for them. The result was the Renaissance and birth of nationalism, as local, commercial organizations gained power over the feudal empires that had governed them.

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