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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

301–310 of 821 posts

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#301
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is, for a number of reasons, but not least of which is fairness. If I get a dollar, then the size of the economy doubles, my purchasing power as a fraction of the total amount of economic activity doubles. This creates wealth inequality over time. You assume that as an economy doubles prices won't decrease. The natural tendency of a free market is a decrease in prices due to competition, technological innovati…

> If anything, holding the same dollar will lead you to purchase more goods at a higher quality than before as the market develops and expands - a higher purchasing power. AKA, a risk-free return on your uninvested, idle, capital that nobody owes you. The poor tend not to have much savings, by definition, which means that all this win goes to the already wealthy. Your argument is simply that your dollars should be wo…

>The poor tend not to have much savings, by definition, which means that all this win goes to the already wealthy.

This is not true - saving rates were higher in the past before irresponsible monetary policy took over after the erosion of the gold standard.

>Your argument is simply that your dollars should be worth more later because you got your dollar first.

This is exactly what happens in an inflationary monetary regime, althought the difference is that the distribution of purchasing power increases is not homogenous in an economy rather it is concentrated on those who are either politically or economically well-connected, usually asset holders.

>Your argument is simply that your dollars should be worth more later because you got your dollar first.

How about not controlling the value of money and instead letting it reflect the general purchasing power in an economy?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#302
post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is, for a number of reasons, but not least of which is fairness. If I get a dollar, then the size of the economy doubles, my purchasing power as a fraction of the total amount of economic activity doubles. This creates wealth inequality over time. You assume that as an economy doubles prices won't decrease. The natural tendency of a free market is a decrease in prices due to competition, technological innovati…

> If anything, holding the same dollar will lead you to purchase more goods at a higher quality than before as the market develops and expands - a higher purchasing power. AKA, a risk-free return on your uninvested, idle, capital that nobody owes you. The poor tend not to have much savings, by definition, which means that all this win goes to the already wealthy. Your argument is simply that your dollars should be wo…

[deleted]

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#303
post #243

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

Ironic that the German government wants to avoid irresponsible monetary policy through a private entity when it is literally printing money to stimulate growth through the ECB.

Right, a technically private institution which is built on capital of all EU member states and tightly knit into the complex web of EU entities is literally the same thing as a social media giant who denies even conducting business at scale in Germany or France to dodge taxes and comes freshly out of manipulating the US elections for profit.

Germany is not perfect, neither in ideology nor in execution. Neither is the EZB or the EU, for that matter. But this is just bad faith arguing.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#304

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

Germany is obviously somewhat keen on letting single entities get control of everything, as the EU is in many ways an extension primarily of Germany, and the closest entity I'm aware of that could be said to be doing just that. I'd also like to mention that certain entities operating outside of the state are precisely the sort of thing that can prevent the sort of tyranny that Germany enacted during the 20th century.…

> Germany is obviously somewhat keen on letting single entities get control of everything, as the EU is in many ways an extension primarily of Germany, and the closest entity I'm aware of that could be said to be doing just that.

I'm not sure a union with a democratically elected parliament is comparable to a social media corporation which answers to its shareholders?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#305

I'm of course not familiar with the specific mindsets and the history of this decision, but I want to share a bit of cultural perspective from Germany that is so far not really considered in this comment section: Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to…

> Germany is very, very keen on preventing powerful entities from acting outside of regulation and similarly, if not more, on preventing a single entity to get in control of everything. This is largely due to some foobar in the last century, which I'm sure everyone is aware of. Ironic that aforementioned foobar in the last century was a governmental entity that existed entirely within the limits of regulation. Not to…

Yes, I don't think we are disagreeing here. Perhaps I should have said intention of regulation instead of regulation. The past events showed that the regulation was rotten, not watertight and prone to abuse. Thus there was a restructuring from the ground up, not only in the law but also in culture, and so Facebook's behavior is triggering all the red flags.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#306
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic that the German government wants to avoid irresponsible monetary policy through a private entity when it is literally printing money to stimulate growth through the ECB.

How about we not relitigate all of monetary policy in a thread about Facebook? This isn't productive; it's a gigantic, pointless digression.

It's not pointless, because control of monetary policy is exactly why they are banning it.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#307

They say: > “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” They mean, "When the establishment rigs the economy by diluting the national currency, then the establishment must not let their citizens escape the damage". People talk about a "rigged economy". Where I found in economics it really happens is 3% inflation that comes from constantly printing money. Low income and…

Helps indebted workers

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#308
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we not relitigate all of monetary policy in a thread about Facebook? This isn't productive; it's a gigantic, pointless digression.

It's not pointless, because control of monetary policy is exactly why they are banning it.

It's pointless because you're not going to persuade anybody, but rather recapitulate a timeless, tedious dorm-room argument. The article is about Germany and Facebook. It isn't an essay on whether central banking is evil.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has SEPA (Instant). The Chinese have WeChat Pay and similar? I'm curious, what other solutions other countries have?

Canada has free “Interac E-transfers” that you can send to an email address or mobile phone number.

Historically most banks have charged $1-$2 for an e-transfer (often with a limited number of free transfers per month, or a different type of chequing account one can sign up for to get free transfers), though it seems prices have been dropping in the past few years. Apparently the Bank of Montreal removed e-transfer fees on personal accounts a year or two ago.

So there's definitely still overhead that can make small transfers infeasible, but it's getting better.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#310
post #27

> “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” What a bizarre statement. Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. It's also odd in the context of Germany in particular where a private currency has been used for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer I suspect there's a lot more behind this sta…

Chiemgauer is run by a non-profit and is a regional currency designed specifically to avoid international interests removing money from the area. My home us county has some terrible incarnation of them. Calling it private (implying for profit, in my mind) or at all comparable to Libra requires some flexible thinking when it very different from the Chiemgauer in every sense EXCEPT being run by a non government entity.

Also these bills literally say on the bill what currency they’re pegged to every time I’ve seen them. There aren’t enough in circulation for basic transactions otherwise.

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