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Age Discrimination at Work

nytimes.com

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Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#161

Post by sanderjd »

tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #99
alxlaz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't understand why there is a bias against age. I've observed this first-hand while doing interviews. Even in companies that insist there's no bias against age, and even with people who insist they don't have any bias, there is nonetheless a preference for hiring: * People who don't have a clear understanding of how much their work is worth and therefore have difficulties negotiating a high salary * Peop…

Wow that's a fascinating breakdown, I never thought about it with that level of granularity.

All of that rings true to me, but I think there's a corollary that if you're willing to pay people in accordance with the value of their depth of experience, and you can evaluate expertise without being biased by enthusiasm, and you can build a stable team that executes on a plan instead of requiring tons of overtime to scramble from emergency to emergency, and if you value choosing the right technologies for a problem over following trends, and if you don't have a toxic culture, then there is a treasure trove of people out there with experience and expertise, who you have less competition to hire.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#162

Post by sanderjd »

fiblye wrote: post #3

I was applying to a job with a large game studio. The interview was going pretty well, I'd thought. We talked a bit about how we'd implement certain gameplay elements, the content of the projects we've worked on, and overall it just seemed good and we all seemed to get along pretty well. Then they asked me how old I was. Their response to my age was, "Oh... maybe it's a little late then. You're not too old, but... ki…

Sounds like an easy lawsuit if they directly asked about your age and then implied it was relevant to their hiring decision.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#163

Post by human20190310 »

alxlaz wrote: post #97
tenaciousDaniel wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never worked with a significantly older person (in tech anyways), but I would happily lean on them for sniffing out fads. Even in my 30's, it's kinda hard to tell what's a fad and what's not. I really don't understand why there is a bias against age. Programming, for me, is a daily exercise in epistemic humility, and I can't fathom having the kind of arrogance to discount the experience and wisdom that comes wit…

> I really don't understand why there is a bias against age. I've observed this first-hand while doing interviews. Even in companies that insist there's no bias against age, and even with people who insist they don't have any bias, there is nonetheless a preference for hiring: * People who don't have a clear understanding of how much their work is worth and therefore have difficulties negotiating a high salary * Peop…

Toxic work environments and constant overtime are to be avoided at all costs. But in the San Francisco/Silicon Valley area at least, companies are absolutely burying inexperienced hires in money, so I don't think the salary issue is as much of an issue anymore.

As to the rest of those preferences, it actually costs an older worker very little simply to cultivate an enthusiasm for new technologies, or their new companies' pet projects.

Where an inexperienced hire will do anything becuase they think everything will work, and an experienced hire might refuse to do things because they think it won't work, a true wise greybeard realizes most things don't work no matter what, but you might as will get onboard and take the ride. You never know what might end up succeeding.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#164

Post by sabujp »

Don't want to be discriminated against? Do leetcode everyday and learn new algorithms, learn statistics, linear algebra, and everything you can about the latest and greatest neural networks.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#165

Post by Impossible »

fiblye wrote: post #3

I was applying to a job with a large game studio. The interview was going pretty well, I'd thought. We talked a bit about how we'd implement certain gameplay elements, the content of the projects we've worked on, and overall it just seemed good and we all seemed to get along pretty well. Then they asked me how old I was. Their response to my age was, "Oh... maybe it's a little late then. You're not too old, but... ki…

This is blatantly illegal and if you really wanted to you could win a lawsuit against them (there are many reasons not to start legal action, but you could). I worked for a large game studio and we had a mandatory training session about protected classes because of things like this.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#166

Post by bmarquez »

vonmoltke wrote: post #149
bradleyjg wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two different, but related, things going on: 1) Is regular, ordinary age discrimination. This is why tech companies won't hire people starting second careers into entry level programming roles. 2) The widespread notion that more than about 5 years programming experience is not valuable, maybe even counterproductive. (Firm specific knowledge is a different story, tech companies do value that.) Hence all the "s…

> The first one is illegal Partially illegal. I'm 39, and it is perfectly legal for companies to tell me they won't hire me because I'm too old. Next year it becomes illegal for them to do so.

They'll never actually admit it though even if it was legal though. Companies would prefer to say they're looking for a better fit or something equally vague.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#167

Post by [deleted] »

human20190310 wrote: post #163
alxlaz wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't understand why there is a bias against age. I've observed this first-hand while doing interviews. Even in companies that insist there's no bias against age, and even with people who insist they don't have any bias, there is nonetheless a preference for hiring: * People who don't have a clear understanding of how much their work is worth and therefore have difficulties negotiating a high salary * Peop…

Toxic work environments and constant overtime are to be avoided at all costs. But in the San Francisco/Silicon Valley area at least, companies are absolutely burying inexperienced hires in money, so I don't think the salary issue is as much of an issue anymore. As to the rest of those preferences, it actually costs an older worker very little simply to cultivate an enthusiasm for new technologies, or their new compan…

[deleted]

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#168

Post by PorterDuff »

68020 wrote: post #55
resoluteteeth wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever topics like this come up on HN, there are always tons of people in their 30s and 40s posting comments like this, which boil down to something like: "I'm not old enough to experience age discrimination yet, and I'm scared but I'm going to keep up with the latest languages/frameworks so I will be special and not be discriminated against like all the other developers, who allowed their skills to deteriorate whe…

I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years. I have kept my skills (aws api / node.js / css / html5 / etc) up to the point were I am over qualified for many of the positions (laid off 3 years back from IBM) I apply for. Before I updated my LinkedIn profile pic I received many interview invites. Now I get none. Recently I started looking at the people that these sw dev companies _actually_ hire. They ask for 3/5/10 years…

"I'm 54. Have been in sw dev for 40 years.....Last year I applied for 300 positions,..."

Being somewhat older than you, but bored, I think about taking up the oar again. My problem doubles down on yours in that my background is all in products with an expensive hardware component or workstation software, neither appears to be a growth industry.

Aside from the inevitable well-meaning advice to become some sort of 'project manager', etc. I wonder if it makes any sense to hit the .gov job markets at all.

Has anyone done that at an advanced age?

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#169

Post by onemoresoop »

fiblye wrote: post #3

I was applying to a job with a large game studio. The interview was going pretty well, I'd thought. We talked a bit about how we'd implement certain gameplay elements, the content of the projects we've worked on, and overall it just seemed good and we all seemed to get along pretty well. Then they asked me how old I was. Their response to my age was, "Oh... maybe it's a little late then. You're not too old, but... ki…

This is an example where age saved you from a bad experience. They wanted you naive and be able to shape you the way thet wanted to and pay you next to nothing.

Re: Age Discrimination at Work

#170

Post by streetcat1 »

fiblye wrote: post #3

I was applying to a job with a large game studio. The interview was going pretty well, I'd thought. We talked a bit about how we'd implement certain gameplay elements, the content of the projects we've worked on, and overall it just seemed good and we all seemed to get along pretty well. Then they asked me how old I was. Their response to my age was, "Oh... maybe it's a little late then. You're not too old, but... ki…

Your age was not the real reason.
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