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France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

reuters.com

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Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#71

Post by zbolian »

aphextron wrote: post #53
aazaa wrote: post #27

> “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” What a bizarre statement. Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. It's also odd in the context of Germany in particular where a private currency has been used for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer I suspect there's a lot more behind this sta…

>Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. They exist entirely at the behest of their respective nation states' laws and regulations, and are completely subordinate to all official law enforcement and military forces. It's a flawed analogy. This would be tantamount to a private military company asserting their right to conduct foreign wars in the name of a…

The monetary policy of the currencies underlying libra are also fully determined at the behest of their respective nation states (or centralized monetary authority in the case of the EU). So, actually not that flawed. Governments and central banks are foolish to not get behind something like this because the alternative is something they can't influence at all like Bitcoin which maintains no peg to anything they do.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#72

Post by mrtksn »

pjmlp wrote: post #43
mrtksn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that they keep spare guillotines around but I'm not sure that it would be a popular thing to punish random Louis libra user for his few hundres Euro transaction when Facebook is paying less in taxes than him, figuratively speaking.

Really? Sadly it is not uncommon to see people going to jail for stealing a few chicken because they were hungry, while many company owners and politicians hardly face any jail time for their proven corruption affairs. Being popular and law seldom come hand in hand.

Stealing a chicken is very different from using something. Stealing chicken is no doubt immoral for most people but punishing the usage of something that Americans can use will not fly unless the USA becomes the arch-enemy and using Libra is perceived as treason and way or unfair enrichment.

Stealing a chicken has a clearly defined victim and stealing, not even piracy or patent infringement is well understood and universally condemned action.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#73

Post by orangecat »

ben_w wrote: post #56
koboll wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you banned everything that causes people more pain than good, half the economy would evaporate overnight.

Is that a bad thing? Regardless of the fraction, if something really does cause more harm than benefit, we will by definition be better off without it, no?

If something causes more harm than good, then we would be better off in a hypothetical world where it was magically erased from existence. In the real world, the negative effects of trying to forcibly ban it can easily be worse. See: drugs.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#74

Post by kazen44 »

sergefaguet wrote: post #63

nations also used to be convinced it is inherent to their sovereignty to tell us who to worship and who to marry. this is no longer the case. not sure there is a principled reason why the power to govern the exchange of goods and services (which is what money facilitates) should be up to them.

but why should it be up to a company like facebook? What inherent right does facebook have to create a currency. The only reason it is able to do so in the first place is because of the legal framework and protections that exist thanks to the nations it does bussiness with.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#75

Post by mytailorisrich »

mrtksn wrote: post #4

Can someone familiar with Libra speculate how a ban can be implemented? What comes to my mind is forbidding Facebook selling and processing it for EU users but beyond that, I am not sure how a "black market" could be prevented.

> I am not sure how a "black market" could be prevented.

Black markets can never be prevented.

The question is whether people would want the goods. Is there a black market for Zimbabwean dollars in the USA, for example?

Libra is pointless in Europe. In fact, it's pointless anywhere there is a developed financial and payment system.

The battleground is therefore places like Africa or South and South East Asia, and there's a reason China has quickly announced an alternative.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#76

Post by logicchains »

luckydata wrote: post #52
koboll wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you banned everything that causes people more pain than good, half the economy would evaporate overnight.

I thought the economy existed in the service of human happiness, not the other way around.

Just because something makes you unhappy, doesn't mean it makes everybody unhappy.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#77

Post by kazen44 »

thefounder wrote: post #58

Ok but can we have a digital euro? I don't like facebook coins but something(digital money) is better than nothing.

we have digital euro's? the fact that it is a physical note or a database record does not matter for fiscal policy.

ever used a digital system to transfer money? like ideal, bancontact or giropay or just plain SEPA?

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#78

Post by justinzollars »

aazaa wrote: post #27

> “no private entity can claim monetary power, which is inherent to the sovereignty of nations” What a bizarre statement. Providing for security is also inherent to sovereignty of nations, but private security firms flourish. It's also odd in the context of Germany in particular where a private currency has been used for many years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer I suspect there's a lot more behind this sta…

We need more financial freedom in the west. Facebook is right to allow its users the ability to protect their assets with Libra - backed by a basket of currencies. I'm very excited about this idea; of course Governments are not going to be comfortable with something they can not control. Whey they go to the printing press to pay for their deficits I certainly want the ability to protect my assets with a stronger currency.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#79

Post by logicchains »

ben_w wrote: post #56
koboll wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you banned everything that causes people more pain than good, half the economy would evaporate overnight.

Is that a bad thing? Regardless of the fraction, if something really does cause more harm than benefit, we will by definition be better off without it, no?

>more harm than benefit

The "harm" Facebook causes is subjective. Some people actually get a lot of pleasure out of it; not everybody is an introverted, neurotic techie.

Re: France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra

#80

Post by bitL »

aazaa wrote: post #49
pjc50 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany has zero interest in devaluation; in fact they've been accused of being far too strict in Euro monetary policy, with the 0-2% inflation target.

Germany has profited immensely from the use of the euro in foreign trade. Had it kept the Deutschmark, German exports would be by some esteems 25% more expensive than they are now, given the strong fiscal position of the country. Germany is in a unique position of being able to jawbone about devaluation and monetary policy while reaping the rewards of spendthrift member states.

Germany's upper class benefited both from Euro and keeping salaries of their employees low.
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